Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Thursday, October 17, 2013

Is Vedic astrology derived from Greek astrology? (Part -14) Tamil sources (Skanda, Mesha & Scandinavia)

Is Vedic astrology derived from Greek astrology? (Part -14) Tamil sources (Skanda, Mesha & Scandinavia)

Friday, September 27, 2013


Thagar – is the Tamil word that exactly signifies the Ram – the Mesha that has a strong head with thick horns with which it is known to attack others. It is for this reason this Thagar was used in ram-fights in those days. Thagar means "thagarthal" ( தகர்த்தல்) – 'to break or shatter into pieces'. This variety of goat is known for hitting the opponent by its head. Today this word is not in common use among Tamils and many Tamils don't even know that this word exists in Tamil to mean ram. Today this is known as "Kidaai"  (ஆட்டுக் கிடாய்). But the word 'Thagar' is found in Sangam texts thereby showing the popular use of this term 2000 years ago.
The Sangam age text called "Pattinappaalai" sung in praise of Karikal Chola makes a specific mention of a fight between a pair of "Mesha- Thagar"  in the capital city of Pumpuhar.  It is written as "Mezhaga-th-thagar". "Mezhagam" (மேழகம்) is the Tamilised word for Mesha  (mezha + agam = mezhagam = house of mesha). By saying "Mezhaga-thagar" the poet refers to the ram of Mesha rashi, thereby giving no doubt on what the thagar stands for.
The context where this term appears refers to a popular pastime of Pumpuhar on sport events. It involves many kinds of fights between men and between animals of different kinds.  The description of these events starts with a comparison with - of all the things - stars and planets. The verse  says "like the stars that move in clockwise direction in the vast sky, joining with the planets, the men joined with other men in this stadium". (1)
Stars   always move in clockwise direction, but the same cannot be told of planets. This brings in the element of clash between the star that is up in the sky and the planet that joins it below in the opposite direction. This eventually creates friction which is astrologically applicable and the winner is determined by the more powerful between them. It is because of this reason, the poet had compared the combat between men with stars in clockwise and the planets that join them or cross them.
The poem mentions 3 such fights among men (boxing, wrestling and sword fighting) and four among animals. The animal combats involved pigs, cocks, "Mesha – Thagar" and a bird called Sival. (2) These fights are part of 64 forms of arts in ancient Bharat. Even before Ramayana times, these arts were learnt. Sage Rishya Shringa who conducted the Puthra kameshti Yaaga for Dasharatha was lured to come to the city by women who were experts in these arts. 
The Mesha -Thagar combat as one among these arts goes farther back to Karthikeya's times as according to Tamil Sangam texts Thagar is the vaahana for Lord Karthikeya, popularly known as Muruga in Tamil lands (3). The Thagar –Mesha – Muruga connection exists because Muruga was born with the aid of Fire- God in high mountains and nurtured by Kritthika stars.
The description of the birth of Karthikeya in Valmiki Ramayana (1-37) has Indra in the company of Fire God leading the other celestials. There is a corroboratory verse in Rig Veda 1-51-1 on Indra  that praises him as ram / Mesha adored by many and whose gracious deeds for men spread like heavens abroad. (4)
This shows the combination of Fire + mountain + Kritthika star + Mesha which Karthikeya was associated with and which gave him the nature of combativeness. This combatant mentality is what a person born in Mesha rashi is endowed with. It must be noted here that though Kritthika star is spread into two rashis, the combatant spirit is manifest only in Mesha which has the tendencies of fire and ram, and not in Rishabha. Further explanation of this will be taken up in another article when I will be explaining a verse to this effect from a Sangam text.
By identifying the ram (thagar) as the vaahana for Karthikeya, it can be deduced that  the idea of Thagar as Mesha must have come into existence long ago in Tamil lands. .  According to Tamils Muruga was not a myth as he was the one who developed the Tamil language along with sage Agasthya and was one among those present in the first assembly of First Sangam in the now submerged South Madurai. Most of the publications of the first Sangam were on Muruga and his escapades.  He was one of the early Pandyan kings, known as "Ugra Kumara" born to Meenakshi, the heiress of the Pandyan king Malayadhwaja .The Tamils had nurtured a strong connection with him as he married a local Tamil girl called Valli. The Muruga legend is three-dimensional – as a divinity, as a natural phenomenon and as one who existed in flesh and blood. The Sangam texts speak of him as one who stopped an ocean flood by throwing his spear at it. That was the first flood experienced in Deep South (somewhere near Australia – Sundaland) at the end of Ice age. But South Madurai survived and Tamil Sangam was started after that Flood.
Before going further, I would like to bring to the notice of the list an interesting information  from Mr Dale Drinnon on the 8 legged animal, Varudai  that I wrote in Part 12.
An 8 legged horse Sleipnir is  found in Norse Mythology.

Odin , a Norse God associated with war, battle, victory and Shamanism was possession of this horse and also a spear called Gungnir. This is similar to Muruga who was described as the Commander in chief for the celestials.
This spear of Odin is similar to the spear of Karthikeya. Look at Odin's head. He has horns similar to the Thagar, the ram, the fighting variety of Mesha.

Shamanism is similar to "Saami- aadal" in Muruga cult in Tamil lands. More than a dozen references are there to this dance known as "Velan veriyattam" (the fierce dance attributed to  Muruga - that we find in sangam texts have remnants in Australian aborigines today) which was done to communicate with spirits and to drive out spirits that have 'caught' the persons. This cult is continuing even today in rural Tamil nadu. Even in the rituals of taking Kavadi to Muruga when people ceremoniously pierce their cheeks, tongue and body with spears, the trance- inducing drum beating and dances are done while at the same time invoking spirits to enter the persons present there.

(Pic : In Mauritius. Wherever worship of Muruga is there, there this cult continues as a form of worship of Muruga)
Why I am saying these things here is that the cult of Muruga with the 8 legged goat cum horse animal (Varudai in Tamil ) and the spear had gone to Scandinavia as Odin, the  Norse God. The 11th century author, Adam or Bremen who had written about Odin and other pre-Christian pagan worship in Scandinavia had written that these people worshiped "gods who were once men, whom they reckon to be immortal because of their heroic acts" {Read here in the Temple at Uppsala (upa shala?) in Sweden}. He has also written that Odin resembles Mars – the planet that Skanda symbolizes. The Sami and Saivu cult of this region has all the trappings of Shiva worship. I am not linking this just like that. Muruga's story has a vast presence from South Pole to North pole.
Scandinavia stands a better chance to be linked with the ancestral region of Devyani, wife of Muruga also known as Skanda. Skanda belonged to South Madurai of the first sangam period. It was close to the now submerged northern borders of Australia and Sundaland. Skanda from this region married Indra's daughter after he saved Indra's son from Surapadma. Sura samhara happened more than 10,000 years ago after which Skanda married Devyani of Indra loka.

Thus Skanda was the son in law of Indra of Deva territory which was in the Northern hemisphere. Like Skanda, Indra was also a triple entity, described as a divinity, a phenomenon occurring in Nature and one who lived in flesh and blood. The Northern territories which was fiercely guarded against anyone from entering, were ruled by a succession of kings who had a title Indra. The Uttar kuru (near lake Baikal / Vaikhanasa lake) is one location of Deva territory. Russia (Rishi varsha) of those days housed Deva and Apsaras people.

In my opinion Scandinavia got the name from Skanda. The very word Scandinavia was derived from Scany / Scania / Skaoan meaning damage, hurting, danger etc. Pliny the Elder has recorded so 2000 yrs ago! From this word 'Scathing' in English came. Scathing attack is what Skanda is very well known for. This shows Skanda connection to this region and his connection came through the marriage with a woman (Devyani) of this region. From Skanda, Sami and Saivu (Shiva) worship must have entered Scandinavia. Saivu people's religious works have resemblance to Linga worship.

There is a Tamil Sangam Paripadal verse that says that since because Skanda married Devyani, the woman of Deva territory, he decided that the people of his own (Tamil) land must not feel let out and therefore married Valli of his own region. This description sounds logical. Skanda as the King of Tamils had stayed in South Madurai while his name and fame had gone as far as North Europe through Devyani connection.

From southern part of Indian Ocean, Skanda cult and a branch of people could have travelled through Africa and entered Europe. A popular episode of Skanda's life is his feat of breaking the Krauncha mountain. No one knows where this is located. Majority opinion is that American continent is the Krauncha dweepa. Hindus living in the US say so in the sankalpa mantra. But American continent looks far away from Skanda's location in ancient Tamil land. The more probable candidate is the Mount "Kilimanjaro"  of Africa. Its location in Tanzania makes it a probable one as it lies close to the ancient Tamil lands. Tanzania is shown in this picture.

Krauncha is a bird. The name Kilimanjaro also has a bird's name "kili" in Tamil which means parrot. But Krauncha is not a parrot. The name could have undergone changes and now sounds similar to a bird's name in Tamil.
On the other side of Tanzania is Cameroon populated by Berbers. Cameroon is shown in this picture.

 The following video shows the people of this country (Berbers) speaking a corrupt form of Tamil! (Narration is in English)
This makes me think that a branch of the population belonging to Skanda's clan could have easily moved through Africa – from Kilimanjaro to Cameroon and from there reached Spain. The early Tamils were settled in scattered regions numbering 49 in the Indian ocean that included the region of Mascarene Plateau touching  Madagascar. Most part of this was above the sea level 6000 years ago.

So the route from Indian Ocean is through this plateau to Kilimanjaro (Tanzania) to Cameroon and from there to Basque and then Europe.
There are research findings in genetics of connection between people of Spain (Basque) and Ireland and from there to Scandinavia. The Sami people of Scandinavia share a genetic link with Berbers of North Africa (read here).  The Irish people with red hair and pink skin have come from Basque area in Spain. (Read here) and there was further movement from Ireland to Scandinavian regions.
The interesting link is the skin and hair color of the Irish people. It is red.

Skanda is also known to be pinkish red in color. The most common name of Skanda in Tamil is Sendhil which means reddish one. The Sangam age name of Skanda that is oft repeated is "SeyOn" which also means red-coloured one. Shiva was reddish and Skanda was light red in complexion.
The red complexioned one is known as "Rohita". In the southward countries mentioned by Shugreeva while he instructed the Vanaras to search for Sita, he talks about "Rohitas" in the southern most parts of the Indian Ocean. After mentioning Agasthya peak, Bhogavathy and then Rishabha peak (which I identify with Pandyas and hence could have been the location of South Madurai of Sangam age ) he mentioned the presence of Rohitas.(5) The Rohita appearance fits with Skanda who was also red coloured.
Today people of that colour are identified as Irish who had their ancestry traced to Spain. Further before Spain, there is no analysis done on previous roots. But going by the Skanda connection to Devyani in the Northern latitudes, it is probable that red-complexioned people (Rohitas) from Deep South,  bearing the memory of Skanda and his legends had travelled to Ireland and to Scandinavia. The dark complexioned people of Cameroon or Tanzania could have been the natives of these places.  
An interesting proof of spread of Skanda cult to Europe can be linked to the existence of a 6 headed figure (Skanda is personified as Shanmukha) in France supposed to have been installed by Irish Monks!!
Depicting the 6 heads of Skanda must have been a challenge to people, I believe after seeing the Yaudheya coin on Skanda. See below:
Now coming to the theme of my article, the idea of Varudai as an 8 legged animal had existed in Tamil lands. It had a rational conceptualization of a mixture of Goat (Mesha) and Horse (Aswins). Later on people have adopted certain variety of goats as Mesha. In olden times it was Thagar, but later it was Nilgiri Tahr brought to Munnar by the Cheran king from the Vindhyas. Perhaps this was done in a bid to follow the same ideas of those in North India (Arya varta). The earlier version of this Tahr was Himalayan Tahr, which the sages of Aryavarta must have treated as Mesha.
The existence of the 8 legged horse in Norse mythology exposes the links to Skanda legends. Skanda who stands for Mesha had been remembered by a previous people who branched out from southern parts in Indian Ocean through Africa to Europe. With them the old idea of 8 legged Varudai had travelled, which after having undergone transformations through ages, came to be called as the 8 legged horse, Sleipnir of Odin.
It is a pity the opponents could not think of this Norse animal as Aries. If Mesha as an animal is an original concept developed in Europe, some traces of how that concept was developed would have been there. Our opponents too would have found a link to the Norse horse or some other idea. But Krios was not a developed idea but an adapted name. Opponents cannot say anything other than saying that it is Greek word for ram.
The opponents' aim is not to explore the truth, but to denounce any credit to Vedic astrology as they find their business interests getting affected by the popularity of Vedic astrology in the West. If they think that Vedic astrologers are grabbing a larger chunk of the Western clientele, they are free to employ any trick to lure them towards them.  But that does not mean they can misinterpret the Vedas and reject the Epics. That shows their lack of confidence in their own product.
With this we are moving to the notions on Thagar as found in Tamil texts.
(to be continued)
 (1)நீனிற விசும்பின் வலனேர்பு திரிதரு
நாண்மீன் விராய கோண்மீன் போல
மலர்தலை மன்றத்துப் பலருடன் குழீஇக்
("Pattinap paaai" lines 67 to 69)
(2)"மேழகத் தகரொடு சிவல்விளை யாட" (Pattinappaali - line 77)
(3) "தகரன், மஞ்ஞையன், புகர் இல் சேவலம் கொடியன்" (Thiru murugaaRRup padai – lines 210)
(4 )अभि तयं मेषं पुरुहूतं रग्मियमिन्द्रं गीर्भिर्मदता वस्वो अर्णवम |
 यस्य दयावो न विचरन्ति मानुषा भुजे मंहिष्ठमभि विप्रमर्चत ||
(Rig Veda – 1-51-1)
(5) रोहिता नाम गंधर्वा घोरम् रक्षन्ति तद् वनम् |
(Valmiki Ramayana – 4-41-42)
Previous articles can be read here:


Ranganathan N R said...
Dear Madam,
Quite an interesting write-up. I thank you for sharing your knowledge. I shall be glad to know whether you written any piece on the scientific reason for lighting atop the hills in TN during the karthigai month. I have read one such article some time in 1994 , might be in Kalaimagal or Mangaiyar malar or Amudhasurabhi by a learned author. I shall be glad if you can share your knowledge on this subject. sincerely, N.R.Ranganathan. 9380288980 or email
jayasree said...
Dear Mr Ranganathan,

You may read my article on Karthigai deepam in this link:

Annamalai deepam on top of Annamali hill may have a specific reason. That hill is a dormant volcano. There was a time when fire was seen on top of this volcanic hill. Recall Appar's "eri perukkuvar" verse

எரி பெருக்குவர் அவ்வெரி ஈசனது
உரு வருக்கமதாவது உணர்கிலார்

verse from 5th Thurumurai. wherever people saw fire they saw it as Shiva as fire is a form of Shiva. That is how this hill came identified with Shiva and huge lamp is lit reminiscing the sighting of older times. There may be other reasons but I have not analysed them.

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