Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Thursday, October 31, 2013

Guest Blogger Jayasree- Is Vedic astrology derived from Greek astrology? (Part 10) – Tamil sources.

(Filling part of the series that was missed before)

Monday, September 16, 2013

Is Vedic astrology derived from Greek astrology? (Part 10) – Tamil sources.

I am continuing my series of articles on the twin issues of whether the zodiac rashi was an indigenous concept of India or an imported one and whether the knowledge of planets was there in India before Alexander's invasion.  In this mail I am focusing on the sources from Tamil literature to establish that Meshadhi rashis were in vogue in Sangam period much before the Common Era. 
 The previous articles can be read here:-

Part 1 (the issues)
Part 2 (Vedic astrology in Silappadhikaram)
(Part 3 (Yavana in Tamil texts)
Rejoinder by Mr Ramanathan
Part 4 (origins of Vedic astrology)
(Part 5 (Zodiac from Paripaadal)
Inscriptions of Uttarayana Samkaranthi
Part 6 (Rashi in Tamil and Sanskrit)
Part 7 (Hora)
Part 8 (Indus sources)
Part 9 (The Mesha - goat in Munnar)
Yavanas (Raja Tarangini)
Yavanas (Kota Venkata Chelam)
Some replies
Mina rashi verse and Kumbh Mela

The Sangam Tamil texts cannot be ignored as they provide
a connectivity and missing link between past and present
by showing that we are indeed following an unbroken Vedic tradition of the past.
 Let me give two examples to substantiate this.
(1)The foreign writers are trying to restrict the tradition of the start of Kumbh Mela to the first millennium of the Common Era. Kumbha Mela  was actually a re-modelled tradition of the 35 year / 7 yuga cycle of the Vedanga Yugas that I highlighted in my last mail.  The celebration of Kumbha Mela is mentioned in a Sangam text called "Pattinap paalai" sung in praise of Cholan King Karikala. The poet is describing the Cholan country starting from the sea shore in Pumpuhaar towards inland. There were salt beds near the shore, then there were gardens after which there was a temple called "Temple of Magha star" (Maga viNmeen kOttam) where a festival was held every year when Moon became full in Magha star! There were 2 lakes near this temple called as "Immaik kaamam" (mundane desires of present birth) and "Marumaik kaamam" (desires of after death). Only after crossing these lakes, one comes to the outer wall of Karikalan's city from which the city started. (1)
This description shows that Kumbha Mela popularly known as "Maasi magam" (Maasi = Tamil name for the solar month of Aquarius) in Tamilnadu was celebrated 2000 years BP. A special temple dedicated to it along with two theerthas where people took a dip was in existence at that time. This takes the beginnings of this festival and the use of Solar month (of Maasi) to a time period much before 2000 years ago.  The existence of these 2 theerthas is not a later phenomenon as there is a sutra in the Grammar book of Tholkaappiyam of the Sangam period on the existence of 2 such lakes for 2 such desires in the ancient past of the society. (2)

(2)The second example is given from a post Sangam period text called "Manimegalai", This text is twin text of Silappadhikaram, as this tells the life of Kovalan's daughter. The author was the contemporary of the Cheran King who built the temple of Kannagi and who defeated the Yavanas along with Gautami Putra Sarakarni (refer the 2nd part of my article in this series). The period was 1st century CE.

This text speaks about a Cholan king called Kaanthan, who was a contemporary of none other than Parashurama! Opponents are questioning the very existence of Rama and quite many are confused about the time period when Rama lived. But this 1st century Tamil text is giving an account from the life of a Cholan king who was ruling from Pumpuhaar when Parashurama, the contemporary of Rama of Ayodhya, was on a rampage against Kshatriyas. This Cholan king felt threatened by Parashurama's rage and therefore handed over the kingdom to his son "Gagandhan" born of him to a concubine and went into hiding in Agasthyashrama in Kodagu, where the river Kavery originates. He thought that Parashurama would not harm this son as he was not of pure kshatriya blood. It is because of this new king Gagandhan, Pumpuhaar was called as "Gaagandhi-puram" for a brief time. (Chapter 22 of Manimegalai)

As a cross reference that Parashurama did exist in a decipherable historical past, there exists 2 inscriptions of King Rajendra Chola –I that praises him as one who captured the Golden Crown placed by Parashurama to the ruler whom he anointed as the king to protect the lands that he captured after going on war for 21 times on the Kshatriyas. (3)

That place was mentioned in the inscription as "Chandima Dweepa" which Rajendra Chola won after capturing Pazham Dweepa (Maldives). Going by the sequence of places that Rajendar Chola captured as written in the inscriptions, Chandima Dweepa can be located in the west coast of South India. {"Rama Kuta Mooshaka" was the king anointed by Parashurama as per the 12th century book "Mooshika vamsa kaavya". His mother was pregnant of him when his father, a descendant of Mahishmathi (of Kaartha veeryarujuna) was killed by Parashurama. Parashurama anointed him with a crown. That crown was captured by Rajendra Chola.  This information is present in the inscriptions of Ranjendra Chola in two places, one in the Rajarajeswara temple of Tanjore and another on a hill near PoLur.

The Tamil texts and the Tamil inscriptions thus establish that Parashurama was a real character who lived in a historical past when Cholans were ruling from Pumpuhaar. No other king, say Pandyan or Cheran had thought of wresting this crown given by Parashurama. But a Cholan king had decided to do it confirms that there did exist a threat to the Cholas by Parashurama and a later Chola found it fit to give a reply by annexing that place and capturing that crown. That crown may now be lying in some Museum in Europe or with some antique collector after the British took over India.   
With this introduction, let me bring to the notice of the readers 2 more information on Tamil sources. One is about the antiquity of the Tamil Sangam and another is about the presence of astrologers as a class during the Sangam period.
Antiquity of the Sangam period.
There were 3 Sangam periods in succession which came up one after another, following submergences of the Pandyan Capital cities on two different time periods.  The former two capitals were completely lost and the 3rd one was the present day Madurai where the 3rd Sangam Assemblies were held. .
The last Sangam assembly was conducted by the Pandyan King Ugra Peru vazhuthi. From Sinnamanur  inscriptions on Pandyan genealogy and  a cross reference from Thiruvalangadu inscriptions on Cholas  on a contemporary Cholan king  by name Peru NarkiLLI and  with yet another cross checking from a Sangam poem on these two contemporary kings, it is deduced that the last Sangam assembly was held  about 2000 years ago.
From yet another narration written 1000 years ago, which was a commentary on a Sangam text, the periods of the 3 Sangam assemblies are known. Similar reference to these periods in a private collection of Tamil texts was discovered in 19th century by Dr U.Ve Swaminatha Iyer, who was pivotal in collecting and publishing the old Sangam texts. The number of poets who participated in the Sangam is also given in those texts as 4449, 3700 and 449 for the 3 Sangams respectively. The number of years of each Sangam period was 4440, 3700 and 1850 for the 3 Sangams respectively. This shows the antiquity of the Sangam period and the existence of a developed and literate culture then.
These are not figments of imagination as the names of some of the popular works and poets of the 3 Sangam periods are also given.
For example, there is a poem on Vishnu in a place called "Irunthaiyur" in Madurai. The author's name is missing in the retrieved manuscripts. But there was a poet by name "Irunthaiyur Kurunkozhi" during the 2nd Sangam period as per the text mentioned above and this was a Sangam poem – meaning, that it was published in the Sangam Assembly. This poet's name has the place name, Irunthaiyur, as the prefix. It was common to have the place name as a prefix before one's name in the Sangam period. (Even now this tradition continues in rural India to identify oneself with three names – the place name coming first, and own name coming last with father's name in the middle with a mention of son of so and so.).
 Irunthaiyur means the place of one who is 'seated' or in sitting posture. The famous Vishnu temple of Madurai, Koodal azhagar is seen as a gigantic figure in sitting posture. This was the main and original temple of Madurai that had a previous name as "Naan Maada-k-koodal" (joined by four streets) from which the deity got the name Koodal azhagar. It was known as Irunthaiyur originally. From the poet's name it is deduced that he had sung this poem in the 2nd Sangam. By this the date of the temple goes before 3500 years ago! Read The Hindu article here and my article here.
The antiquity of this temple can be thus traced to pre Common Era. Even Srirangam temple is mentioned in a Sangam text called Aga nanuru, with a description of how the pilgrims spent their time while they came to witness the Phalguni Uttara festival (festival of marriage of Sri Ranganatha and his consort Sri Ranga nayaki). Balaji temple of Thirupathy and Thiru Veggha temple of Kancheepuram are also found in the olden texts putting their period before 2000 years ago. The Onam festival which is now popular in Kerala is mentioned in the Sangam text of Madurai-k-Kanchi as the festival of Vishnu celebrated in Madurai! This was 2000 years ago. {Details here (4) }
The Koodal azhagar temple of Madurai is described in another Sangam text named "Madurai –k-Kanchi". Both the texts (Paripadal and Maduraik Kanchi) on this temple describe the nature of the heavy rush of pilgrims to the temple, thereby showing the popularity of this temple in its long existence before 2000 years ago. The social and Vedic life around the temple is also described. 
The consecration of these temples must have happened in well calculated Muhurtha in an auspicious lagna, in auspicious solar months (even now the yearly Brahmothsavas and other festivals happen in accordance with solar months), with specifications on planetary positions. One of the main clauses for fixing the time of the consecration of a temple is that Venus and Jupiter must not be combust at that time. From where they got the idea of these planets to fix the time of consecration of these temples at Irunthaiyur and Srirangam  at 2000 + years ago? From Greece? Nothing can be more laughable than this. 
Coming to the Sangam texts, names of popular rishis are associated with the Sangam texts as we do have poems written by Sandilya, Gargi and Valmiki in Tamil.  A Tamil work authored by one "Mayan" published in the 2nd Sangam was found in the Saraswati Mahal Library of Tanjore Palace by the famous Sculptor Dr V Ganapathi Sthapathi. The period of this book coincides with Ramayana period in the 5th millennium BC. It must be remembered that one Mayan was the father of Mandothari (wife of Ravana)!
Calculating the period of the 3 Sangams on the basis of the duration of each Sangam, we arrive at the following figures:
1st sangam  between 9990 BC and 5550 BC .
2nd sangam  between 5550 BC and 1850 BC
3rd sangam between 1850 BC and 2000 years BP (beginning of Common Era)
This shows that the first Tamil sangam started 12,000 years before present. This huge number need not be taken as a myth as there is evidence of well developed society in this part of the country at that time. Let me draw the attention of readers to the discovery of a man-made structure off the coast of Pumpuhar (here) and  (here) in South east Tamil nadu (It was Cholan capital about 2000 years ago) by Graham Hancock  and was dated by him  at 11,500 years BP as per Glenn Milne's inundation maps.

There is also on record a discovery of implements dated from 10,000 BC to 4000 BC in a place called Agastheeswaram in Kanyakumari. This is recorded in the book on Kanyakumari (page 37) published by the State Dept of Archaeology of Tamilnadu. Unfortunately these kind of information on antiquity which the Sangam texts also reveal, are ignored due to Dravidian (?) chauvinism and Western brain-wash.  
Coming to the topic, the first Sangam was started after Tamil letters were formed and grammar was introduced. As per Tamil Tradition (given in many Tamil texts), both Tamil and Sanskrit grammar were simultaneously introduced under the auspices of Lord Shiva to Agasthya and Panini. The first Panini or the original Panini existed then.
Even the word Panini is a Tamil word. There were many PANans at that time period. In Tamil the word PANan is derived from PaN > pAN > PANan. PaN means the musical note. When words are composed and set to that musical note, it is called 'pAN'. 'pAN' in Tamil means a song or a composition in praise of something. The one who delivers it / sings it is a PANan. From this is derived the word "pANi" which means songs. There are many "pANi"s  mentioned in Silappadhikaram that were all dedicated to the praise of God and this shows that the grammatical poems set to music had come into existence much before Silappadhikaram time, thereby indicating a deeper antiquity for its first beginnings. 
The newly introduced Tamil grammar was intended for these PANans as they were the ones who were known for composing poems and setting them to music. Most of the compositions of the first Sangam were set to music. There is a Sangam verse (Pura nAnUru verse 335) (5)  that says that PANans were one of the 4 oldest castes (the word used is "Kudi" which means - inhabitants). Thiru-p-pANAzhwar, one of the Azhwars who composed Divya Prabhandam was a pANan.
An important information connected to this antiquity is that astrological texts were published in the 1st Sangam period! Astrology and Music were the oldest topics that had existed even before Sangam was established. These two topics dominated the 1st Sangam. (6)
Astrologers were there in the Sangam period.
The second information that I want to give as a prelude is that the Tamil society existed not as just 4 varnas but as 7 classes. (7) The grammar work of the 3rd Sangam, namely Tholkappiyam (this name means "ancient kAvya") describes this. There were the 4 varnas and in addition, there were 3 more classes identified as saints (Thaapathar), astrologers (Arivan) and Porunar (the ksahtriya vratya who were engaged in dancing and singing but were able to spring into action to fight, if instigated). Note the mention of astrologers as a class. The term "Arivan" for astrologers is equivalent to Daivajna in meaning. 
There is an elaborate description of the astrologers of Madurai in the Sangam poem "Madurai-k-Kanchi". It says that people from Java island (Saavaka - Jaavaka – Jaava)  used to visit Madurai to meet these astrologers. Note here that Yavanas did not come to meet the astrologers though Yavanas were mentioned elsewhere, but in the context of supplying wine. The "honey coloured" people of Java described in this Sangam text establishes another historical past of the Tamils. Even today there are names of places of Sangam age in Java island. For example there is a place called "Thengar" in Java which is also the name of the 7 countries of the 2nd  Sangam period. There were 49 countries (mostly islands) classified into 7 of 7 each that were scattered in the seas. Of these, the countries within an extant of 700 "KAvadham" were lost in the seas during the 2nd sangam period. There are calculations for what a Kaavadham means that one can get from the Tamil Thesaurus written 1000 years ago.
But I want to refer to an inscription of King Adhitya Chola found in Chengalpet which makes a similar mention of 700 kAvadham as the distance between the Ganges and the tip of Kanya Kumari. (A.R.E. 442/1922).If we take this as an understandable measurement for the scattered habitation in the Indian Ocean that was lost into the sea, we come closer to Java and other parts of Sundaland from the southern coast of India (Tamilnadu). It is interesting to know that there exists a place called Madura  off Java separated by a strait of Madura from Java. The people of this Madura call themselves as Madurese and speak the language of Madurese.  Their main occupation had been salt making which was a main occupation of Tamils in the Sangam age too.
Perhaps these Madurese were part of the old Sangam Tamil people that survived the deluge and moved eastward to Java while the Pandyan king moved towards Indian mainland. Another proof from a genetic analysis of the scatter-effect of the ancient Tamils can be read here. With these proofs, we can say that an olden population that was separated from the Tamil society and relocated at Java was in touch with the mainland society.
The background of their visit was a 7 day festival in Madurai. Though there is mention of different types of people coming to that festival, identification of a people by their place is given to these Java people only. The only kind of description about them centres on their interaction with astrologers. It shows that one of the main reasons for their coming to Madurai from Java was to interact with them, apart from witnessing the festival.
The text continues to say that they treated the astrologers as God and worshiped them with flowers, incense and songs in praise of them. The text goes on to describe the astrologers as those who knew the three Times (tri-kala) and had the knowledge of terrestrial, atmospheric and celestial happenings. It is also mentioned that they followed strict austerity. (8)
This visit to the astrologers of Madurai shows the existence of astrologers and their popularity for long in the past in this region of India which is close to the Equator. I request the readers to recall my article in Part 4 (here)  where I reasoned out that an equal division of the zodiac and equal day and night (of 30 +30 Nadika) could have been conceived only near the equator. Only in such a location the hora system can work by which the days of the week as they exist now (followed throughout the world) could have been conceived. (Part 7 ) It must be noted that the Hora based astrology is still vogue in Tamilnadu.  As we go towards north India, the7 planet- hora would not recur in the exact order and the next sunrise would not see the hora of the next day's lord. This has necessitated the re-doing of the hora system with just Sun and the moon repeating alternatingly.
Further North in Greece the exact recurrence of the hora is impossible for most days in a year.  The Yavana Jataka chapter on the 7 –planet based Hora system shows that it was reproduced from an older tradition that existed near the Equator. Nowhere else on the globe, except near the equator this idea of planet based hora can be conceived nor used, as this was the basis for the naming of the day after a planet (the planetary lord of the hora present at sunrise, becomes the lord of the day – thereby giving the name as Bhanu vaara, Indu vaara etc).
In the context, the existence of a developed Tamil society, with a separate class of people as astrologers makes it possible to have developed astrology long before than currently thought. By this I am not being chauvinistic of a Tamil cause, but would like stress that astrology had existed and astrologers had existed in southern part of India and in the submerged parts on Indian Ocean with Java (near the equator) being one place where people having knowledge of astrology had existed and regularly interacted with astrologers of Madurai. A former community from whom the South and North Indian populations had emerged had existed near the equator and possessed the knowledge of astrology.

This fits with the genetic analysis of North and South Indians. Those who were in the South within the tropics retained the old hora system whereas those who went on to occupy North India made necessary changes in the Hora system. By this it is also deduced that the solar month which has practical relevance in the tropical regions continue to be retained in South India whereas it got secondary importance in north of tropic of cancer. The prevalence of lunar calendar in North India and Solar calendar in South India is due to this. But overall it is a combined Luni solar calendar where Sun gains importance in mundane activities, moon in spiritual matters and a combined reading for arriving at good and bad times for any activity.
One of the practical relevance of Solar Calendar is "Kari NaaL" – literally meaning "coal day". These are inauspicious days that come on specific days in every SOLAR month. They are 34 in all. (9)  No one knows on what basis the specific solar days have been picked out as Kari NaaL. But the most prominent effect attributed to this day is that any travel undertaken on this day would result in failure. Either the traveller would run into troubles like accidents or the purpose of the travel would not fructify. One way of rationalising this is that the solar radiation or something of that stuff would hamper the one who ventures out. The word Kari, meaning coal fits with a heated effect. This effect can be there in the tropics where sun shines hot and crosses over head. This concept of Kari NaaL is not there in North India, perhaps for this reason.
Agasthya, the astrologer
This concept was given by sage Agasthya who was the family priest of the Pandyas in the 1st Sangam and was the progenitor of Tamil letters and also astrology! One must know this astrology was not developed by ordinary beings. Every concept of astrology was associated with Vedic sages. The astrology as is found in Tamilnadu or in ancient Sangam age was given by none other than Sage Agasthya! He was known as "Arivan" (Daivajna) – and recorded so by the 9th century commentator Nacchinaarkkiniyar. There is no record associated with Agasthya in the known period of the last 2000 years. His period comes very much before that. Keeping that in mind if we look at the verses attributed to him, we would know that rashi and planets are indigenous to India.

There is a book called "Agasthiyar panneeraayiram" which means 12,000 of Agasthiya. Only parts of it are available in old manuscripts. It is a tradition to name the works of Siddhas by the number of verses attributed to them. There is "Bhogar Ezhaayiram" meaning 7000 of Bhogar. Bhogar was the Siddha who made the image of Lord Muruga of Palani Hills. There is cross reference in these books that establishes that these ancient characters are true and had lived atleast 3000 years ago. These works may not be the exact words narrated by these siddhas originally. They may have been rewritten periodically as a matter of preservation. But it is hardly possible that interpolations could have happened given the kind of Guru-sishya parampara that was keen on transmitting the original ideas. 
Agasthiyar 12,000 is in the form of dialogue between Agasthya and Pulastya, Pulastya being the disciple of Agasthya. Pulastya's location was Lanka or somewhere in the South near the equator, as he was the father of Ravana. This work has references to the rashis and describes the rashis. Agasthya says that he got the knowledge of astrology from the Ashwini twins. While describing the Year, he mentions the solar year only. He says when the Sun enters Mesha rashi, in the first pada of Ashwini, the Year purusha will be born. (10)
When we have references to rishi-astrologers having lived near the equator and passed on the knowledge of astrology, and particularly those ideas that can be conceived and applicable near the equator, it is illogical to assume that these ideas originated in high latitudes north off Tropic of cancer.  The 30 degree equal division of the zodiac, 30 nadika day and 30 nadika night and 7 horas lorded by 7 planets appearing in a sequence in such a way that the lord of the first hora at sunrise becomes the lord of the day thereby giving its name to the day, cannot be originally conceived outside the tropic belt. With this background information on Tamil sources, let me continue with specific verses of the Sangam texts where "aadu" or Mesha is mentioned.
(to be continued)
 (1)From Pattina-p-paalai
மதிசேர்ந்த மகவெண்மீ
னுருகெழுதிற லுயர்கோட்டத்து
முருகமர்பூ முரண்கிடக்கை
வரியணிசுடர் வான்பொய்கை
யிருகாமத் திணையேரிப்
(2)"இருகாமத்திணையேரி போலும் குளங்களிலும்"  (Thol kappiyam, Karpiyal Sutra 50)
(3)" செருவிற் சினவி இருபத்தொருகால் அரசு களை கட்ட பரசுராமன் மேவருஞ் சாந்திமத் தீவவரண் கருதி இருத்திய செம்பொன் திருத் தகு முடியும்" Rajendra Chola -I inscriptions – year 1024 AD on a rock on top of Thirumalai-k kunRu near PoLur and in the year 1031 AD in the southern side of the sanctum sanctorum of Rajarajeswara temple of Tanjore.
(4)From Madurai-k Kanchi – Scenes of Onam festival of Vishnu celebrated in Madurai are described. This festival is of importance to Maravar (warring community). They would show their might by bringing their elephants used in wars and make them run by skilfully controlling them. Seeing their skill in controlling elephants and making them run, people would admire them by presenting them new cloths. The Maravar would enjoy drinking honey and wine on this day. There is no mention of Mahabali. The 8th century Periyaazhwar song in Divya Prabhandam also mentions Onam festival of Vishnu that was celebrated from times of yore.
590கணங்கொ ளவுணர்க் கடந்த பொலந்தார்
மாயோன் மேய வோண நன்னாட்
கோணந் தின்ற வடுவாழ் முகத்த
சாணந் தின்ற சமந்தாங்கு தடக்கை
மறங்கொள் சேரி மாறுபொரு செருவின்
595மாறா துற்ற வடுப்படு நெற்றிச்
சுரும்பார் கண்ணிப் பெரும்புகன் மறவர்
கடுங்களி றோட்டலிற் காணுந ரிட்ட
நெடுங்கரைக் காழக நிலம்பர லுறுப்பக்
கடுங்கட் டேறன் மகிழ்சிறந்து திரிதரக்
(5)"துடியன் பாணன் பறையன் கடம்பனென்
றிந்நான் கல்லது குடியு மில்லை" (Pura nanooru 335)
(6)"முந்து நூல் அகத்தியமும், மாபுராணமும், இசை நுணுக்கமும்,
அவற்றுட் கூறிய இலக்கணங்களாவன :
எழுத்து, சொல், பொருள், யாப்பு, சந்தம், வழக்கியல்,
அரசியல், பார்ப்பனவியல், சோதிடம், காந்தருவம், கூத்தும் பிரிவுமாம்"
(7) "அறு வகைப் பட்ட பார்ப்பனப் பக்கமும் வகை மரபின் அரசர் பக்கமும் இரு மூன்று மரபின் ஏனோர் பக்கமும் மறு இல் செய்தி மூ வகைக் காலமும் நெறியின் ஆற்றிய அறிவன் தேயமும் நால் இரு வழக்கின் தாபதப் பக்கமும் பால் அறி மரபின் பொருநர் கண்ணும் அனை நிலை வகையொடு ஆங்கு எழு வகையான்
தொகை நிலை பெற்றது என்மனார் புலவர்"
 தொல்காப்பியம் (புறத்திணை இயல் 74) 
(8)Following verse from "Madurai Kanchi" on people of Java coming to Madurai to worship the astrologers.  The name of the text carries "Kanchi" which does not refer to Kancheepuram. Kanchi here means a type of song that focuses on non-permanence of life. When a king is seen to go on war to boost up his image and fame, a poet sings a Kanchi to him where he subtly brings out the non-permanence of his life and brings him to the sense of shunning war for fame. It is Madurai Kanchi because it was sung on the Pandyan king of Madurai.
வண்டுபடப் பழுநிய தேனார் தோற்றத்துப்
பூவும் புகையுஞ் சாவகர் பழிச்சச்
சென்ற காலமும் வரூஉ மமயமு
மின்றிவட் டோன்றிய வொழுக்கமொடு நன் குணர்ந்து
வானமு நிலனுந் தாமுழு துணருஞ்
சான்ற கொள்கைச் சாயா யாக்கை
யான்றடங் கறிஞர் செறிந்தனர் நோன்மார்
(9) List of kari naaL in the Solar months. Tamil month names with corresponding Rashi names are given along with the dates on the month when Kari NaaL occurs. This is fixed. Given by Sage Agasthya
Chitthirai – Aries – 6th and 15th
Vaikasi – Taurus – 7, 16, 17
Aani – Gemini -1, 6
Aadi – cancer – 2, 10, 20
Aaani – Leo – 2, 9, 28
Purattasi – Virgo – 16, 29
Aippasi – Libra – 6, 20
Kaartthikai – Scorpio – 1, 10, 17
Maargazhi – Sagittarius – 6, 9, 11
Thai – Capricorn – 1, 2, 3, 11, 17
Maasi – Aquarius – 15, 16, 17
Panguni – Pisces – 6, 15, 19
(10) "மேடமென்னும் ராசியாம் மதனிற்கேளு
மேலானா யசுவினி முதலாம்பாதம்
குலவியே கதிரவந்தான் வந்துதிக்க
வருச புருசன் அவதரிப்பானென்றே
பரிவுடன் உலகிற்கு நீசாற்றே"
(From "Agatthiyar panneeraayiram")

Please Help

 My good friend Carolyn Rose Goya has asked me to ask all of our friends to send protection and energy for physical help to her. She says  that will help right now because people will have extra energy because of the holidays now and tomorrow and can help

More specifically, please pray for Carolyn because she is at the mercy of unfavourable living conditions. And she needs for a favourable business transaction to sell some real estate at the best rate to help to raise funds.

She has added this statement: " I now sit in a trailer w/ no running water or toilet and no heat - vehicle was vandalized and that will cost $213 to make mobile - I have a place to move to, but last two months house was burned , I was attacked physically, raped , vehicle and house damaged .. sale of house thus delayed - I ask for strength to meet the tasks at hand and it is hard as I am alone in the middle of the woods surrounded by piles of garbage - helper flaked out and left .. just need help for another month - and I need strength I m exhuasteed and not eating well - female problems bad and broken tooth so hard to eat"

We are asking for your prayers and best wishes and trusting I the positive effect that shall follow. Thank you for your consideration.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

Wednesday, October 30, 2013

Best Evidence for an Atlantis Story from America

Usually credited to J Manson Valentine and reproduced by Charles Berlitz after its publication in Atlantis Mother of Empires by Stacy-Judd (Which is a very good book, although largely merely an amplification of Ignatius Donnelly's 1882 Atlantis the Antediluvian World )

"This amazing piece of ancient art once decorated the Mayan Temple at Tikal. It shows a man in a boat escaping from a land that is sinking into the ocean. A drowning man can be seen and a volcano erupts as a pyramid collapses into the water. Discovered and photographed by a German archeologist, it was taken to Berlin, but unfortuanately destroyed there during WW2"

However the story is clear enough already from what we know about Maya beliefs:


Earth, sky, underworld

Horizontally, the earth is conceived in various ways: as a square with its four directional or, perhaps, solstice points, or as a circle without such fixed points. The square earth is sometimes imagined as a maize field, the circular earth as a turtle floating on the waters. Each direction has its own tree, bird, deity, colour, and aspect, in the highlands also its own mountain. Vertically, the sky is divided into thirteen layers, and Classic period deities are sometimes linked to one of the thirteen skies. By analogy with the 'Nine-God' mentioned together with the 'Thirteen-God' in the Chilam Balam book of Chumayel, the underworld is often assumed to have consisted of nine layers. However, the Popol Vuh does not know such a ninefold division, and Classic period references to layers of the underworld have not been identified.
In the world's centre is a tree of life (the yaxche 'ceiba')[60] that serves as a means of communication between the various spheres. In Palenque, the tree of life is a maize tree, just as the central world tree in the Borgia Codex; a curving bicephalic serpent hovers around it, which some believe to embody the ecliptic.[61] The king was probably identified with the tree of the centre and is usually shown to carry the bicephalic serpent as a ceremonial bar.
In the Classic period, earth and sky are visualized as horizontally extended serpents and dragons (often bicephalic, more rarely feathered) which serve as vehicles for deities and ancestors, and make these appear from their maws. Other serpents, shown as vertically rising, seem to connect the various spheres, perhaps to transport the subterranean or terrestrial waters to the sky. Dragons combine the features of serpent, crocodile, and deer, and may show 'star' signs; they have been variously identified as the nocturnal sky and as the Milky Way.

World endings and beginnings

Within the framework of the post-Classic cycle of thirteen katuns (the so-called 'Short Count'), some of the Yucatec Books of Chilam Balam present a deluge myth describing the collapse of the sky, the subsequent flood, and the re-establishment of the world and its five world trees upon the cycle's conclusion and resumption. The Lightning deity (Bolon Dzacab), the divine carriers of sky and earth (the Bacabs), and the Earth Crocodile (Itzam Cab Ain) all have a role to play in this cosmic drama, to which a much earlier, hieroglyphic text from Palenque's Temple XIX seems to allude.[62] The Quichean Popol Vuh does not mention the collapse of the sky and the establishment of the five trees, but focuses instead on a succession of previous mankinds, the last of which was destroyed by a flood.
For the Classic Mayas, the base date of the Long Count (4 Ahau 8 Cumku), following upon the completion of thirteen previous baktun eras, is thought to have been the focus of specific acts of creation.[63] Through the figures of two so-called 'Paddler Gods', the mythology of the Maya maize god appears to have been involved. References to 4 Ahau 8 Cumku events are few in number (the most important one occurring on Quirigua stela C), seemingly incoherent, and hard to interpret. They include an obscure conclave of seven deities in the underworld (among whom the deity Bolonyokte') and a concept of 'three stones' usually taken to refer to a cosmic hearth.

...(snip) [Emphasis added-DD]

File:ChacDresden.jpgChaac, Elephant-headed god, the Earth-shaker [Poseidon} that destroyed the previous world in a universal deluge




A picture showing the legend of PADDLER-GODS taken from our Mayan mythology archives. Illustration by Chas Saunders. Read the story below or search the index for more Mayan Gods, Mayan Goddesses, heroes, demons and monsters!

Two Canoe Gods in charge of Distribution and Logistics

There are times when even Gods have to paddle their own canoe. Well, some cargoes are too precious to end up the creek without a paddle. When there are souls to be ferried and corn distribution to be taken care of, you need to run a tight canoe.
Corn Gods don't do water, and without wheels it's waterways all the way. And guess who has right of way at all times?
Old Jaguar Paddler sits in the bow and streams through the night shift, and Old Stingray Paddler dabbles away from the stern to the daytime.
[Which sounds like these gods run a ferry service equivalent to Noah's Ark in this case]

Paddler Gods

An important pair of deities is the Paddler Gods, two gods depicted as paddlers of the divine canoe. The image is incised on a bone found in Burial 116 at Tikal in the Peten region of Guatemala, picturing the paddlers transporting the maize god in the canoe through the waters of the Underworld. A number of modern Mayanists claim that the canoe also serves as a visual metaphor for the Milky Way in the night sky, and the Paddler Gods journey through celestial world until arriving at the constellation of Orion, the original source of creation in the Maya universe.
The paddlers row on opposites ends of the canoe, designated by scholars as Old Jaguar Paddler at the front of the boat, and Old Stingray Paddler at the stern. The opposite ends also embody the extremes of day and night. The hieroglyph sign akbal, means "darkness", associated with Old Jaguar Paddler at the front. The k'in sign, "day", is associated with Old Stingray Paddler at stern.
In one version of creation, the Paddler Gods participate in the establishment of the Cosmic Hearth by setting the first of the three hearth stones (the primordial Jaguar Throne Stone) at Na-Ho-Chan, "First-Five-Sky." Old Jaguar Paddler wears the headdress of a jaguar's head, covered with black spots. Since the god is old though, he has no teeth.
The pair also shares an association with serpent imagery, which often channeled the manifestation of visions conjured by dead ancestors and deities during ritual bloodletting sacrifices. In scenes of bloodletting, the Paddlers appear to form out of the wisps of mystical clouds, each at opposite ends of a serpents jaws. Other images incorporate the Paddlers in ceremonial bars, whereby the Paddlers emerge from the mouths of serpents on opposite sides of the bar. Old Stingray Paddler wears stingray spines and bones in the nasal septum, a device used to draw blood during the ritual sacrifices.
Pawahtun (God N)
Pawahtun is the Atlas of Mayan deities. According to the 16th century Spanish bishop Diego de Landa, Pawahtun bore the responsibility of holding up the sky. The deity existed in four aspects as the world-bearers that supported the corners of the universe at the cardinal directions, also called the Bacabs, when serving as the world-bearers.
On Classic Period painted vessels, God N is frequently depicted as an old man wearing a turtle shell on his back with a netted cloth headdress. Pawahtun also appears in a state of intoxication accompanied by groups of beautiful young women. The following depiction might coincide with the dangerous five day period called Wayeb, a short time frame considered unlucky and hazardous among many Maya near the end of the year. The period perhaps reflects the precarious nature of Pawahtun's drunken stupor, an undesirable state for a deity holding up the sky. The god also served as the patron god of scribes.
I make the case that Pawahtun may have later inspired the mythic figure of Plato’s Atlantis, Atlas (a Greek Titan that held aloft the globe on his back), and that natives of the Americas (probably the Olmec) spoke of the Maya equivalent Pawahtun to visiting Phoenician sailors; the Phoenicians eventually brought those stories to the ancient Mediterranean. In the Chilam Balam texts of the Maya, Pawatun was said to have dropped the sky in a great cataclysm. See my page on In Search of Plato’s Real Atlantis for more information.
[Pawatun has also been related to the Poseidon of Plato]
The Fallen "Mid-Most Seers" of the Maya Popul Vuh Text
In the Popul Vuh, there is an intriguing passage that describes the “fall from grace” of the mythical Caeuc peoples, a descent that mirrors the spiritual decay of Plato’s Atlantics. The creator gods, jealous of the “genius” of the “mid-most seers”, partially blinded the farsight of the first ranking Quiche to be not quite so far but “nearby”.
Perfectly they saw, perfectly they knew every thing under the sky, whenever they looked. The moment they turned around and looked around in the sky, on the earth everything was seen without obstruction. They did not have to walk before they could see what was under the sky.... As they looked, their knowledge became intense. Their sight passed though trees, through rocks, through lakes, through seas, through mountains, through plants. Jaguar Quitze, Jaguar Night, Mahucutah, and True Jaguar were truly gifted people.” 
“They understood everything perfectly, they sighted the four sides, the four corners in the sky, on the earth, and this did not sound good to the builder and sculptor: ‘What our works and designs have said is no good: they understood too much. We have ‘understood everything great and small’ they said’…And so the Bearer, Begetter took back their knowledge: ‘What should we do with them now? Their vision should at least reach nearby, they should see at least a small part of the face of the earth, but what they're saying is not good. Are they not merely 'works' and 'designs' in their very names? Yet they will become as great as gods unless they procreate, proliferate at the sowing, the dawning, unless they increase.’ ‘So let it be this way: now we will take them apart just a little. What we have found is not good. Their deeds would become equal to ours.’”
The ability for the Caeuc to see without walking, and to “sight the four sides and four corners” of the sky and earth, appears to be a reference to the mapping of the globe and four cardinal directions by sea craft. Do these seafarers represent Plato's ambitious and power hungry Atlantics?

The Seven Lobed Cave of Origins and the Great Tollan

Within the many native legends of origin described by the Maya, Aztec, and Toltecs of central America, there is a place often described as the seven-fold cave or "Chicomoztoc" of origins, where the first people emerged. All of these myths have in common that a sacred cave and a great city, often called the "Great Tollan" or Aztlan amongst the Aztecs, lay somewhere out to the east, within the "sea of the rising sun."
Interestingly, Paulina Zelitsky, the discoverer of the stone city underwater off Cuba, has studied extensively a sacred cave on the Isle of Youth, just off the coast nearby, where numerous images of concentric circles are depicted. The cave consists of seven separate lobes, which directly mirrors many artistic depictions of the original "Chicomoztoc" cave in several Mayan and Aztec codices. Zelitsky herself, links the image of a cross found in the cave to a cross found on stones in the sunken city far below and believes whatever cultures inscribed the two symbols are somehow related. She does not link the city or culture to Atlantis, but recognizes the extreme age of the culture that built the city and drew the art. She prefers to attribute the structures and culture somehow to the Olmecs.
I'm not exactly sure what to make of the city. Edgar Cayce, the other most often cited source for Atlantis other than Plato, described that several major cities existed in the realm of "Poseidia". Cayce referred to the name Poseidia repeatedly in several life readings spread over many years, and used the name as a reference to those lands that made up the Caribbean portion of the Atlantis empire in what is now considered the Bahamas. Similarly, the Neoplatonist Proclus of the early Christian era refers to the rulership of Atlantis over the Hesperide Islands (another name for the Caribbean islands as per early explorers such as Christopher Columbus). Centuries after Proclus, the medieval scholar Honorius of Autun also referred to these lands (Hesperides) as being that of "sunken Atlantis".
Cayce mentions one city called "Amaki", which apparently represented a large center for fire worship in Poseidia; that city spread a powerful and popular fire cult throughout North America up the Mississippi as far as Wisconsin and Cayce himself attributes pyramidal mounds that still "survive" in Wisconsin to that very old cult. There is also mention of a city called the "Gate of Gold" that existed in Poseidia, which somehow seems to represent the excessive greed that the Atlanteans developed.
In comparison, the Greek historian, Theopompus, mentions two great cities that existed on the opposite continent across the great Ocean called separately "Pious" and "Warlike." Cayce also describes in one reading, a corrupt tyrant called Sonl that ruled over the "sacred Atlantean city of Peos" with "unlimited power" much "to soul's own undoing." The name, Peos, of course, does not sound very far off from Theomposus' "Pious"; the two different and opposite names then would seem to mirror the spiritual degeneration of Plato's Atlantics. Having lost their "inherent divine nature", or piousness as Theopompus implies, the Atlantics became "greedy" and "warlike" and sought to conquer the Mediterranean. Is the underwater city of Cuba "Pious" (Peos) or "Warlike" (Gate of Gold?)...who knows.
[Although the sunken city off of Cuba's west end is undoubtedly of the same culture and age as Plato's Atlantis, the details are all wrong for them to be identical (No elephants and no cattle). Therefore this author's speculations as to this being "the Real" Atlantis are valueless-DD]