Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Sunday, March 10, 2013

Guest Blogger Jayasree on Sundaland and Indus Civilisation @7500 BC

[7500 BC is the END of the Ice age catastrophe millenium of destruction following the giant meteor strike if we are going on a  straight (unadjusted) radiocarbon date for that strike. A number of people prefer to use an adjusted C14 date for the event, but I think that is an error. I think the adjustment is not warranted and that the perod of 8500-7500 BC is filled with seismic repercussions and volcanic echoes of the initial shock at just about 8500 BC, Otto Muck's date.Jayasree is using the Radiocarbon-Adjusted date when he says 13000 years ago in the article below but in this he is only following Western authors that say the C14 date adjustment is necessary.-DD]
ttp://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2012/11/date-of-indian-civilization-pushed-upto.html
Non-random-Thoughts


This blog aims at bringing out the past glory of India, Hinduism and its forgotten values and wisdom. This is not copyrighted so as to reach genuine seekers of these information. Its my prayer that only genuine seekers - and not vandals & plagiarists - come to this site.

Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Date of Indian civilization pushed upto 7500 BC!


The Indus date has been pushed back to 7500 BC, so says a recent research (given below). For those reading through the Ithihasas and Puranas of India, this is not a news at all, for we are able to decipher the history of the world running into tens of thousands of years from these texts. When we read them in conjunction with Tamil sangam inputs, we get a better picture of the past.

For example, the rise of human civilisation in the past one lakh years started in the southern seas in the Indian ocean  “ a fact which most of genetic researchers agree with. It had gone to the Northern hemisphere about 60,000 years ago after the Toba-effect subsided. Then when the North was covered with ice, a shift happened from North to South“ not through India but through China to Sundaland (present day Indonesia). From Mahabharata narration (Anusasana parva, chapter 93) it is known that a migration following the sun's movement happened from north to south. This is cleverly explained in this chapter using the etymological meanings of names of the seven rishis and others.



From a region that was supplying Sibi (Typha angustifolia) in the northern latitudes, people had moved to the South where lotuses were growing. These two plants signify availability of food as these plants were completely edible with each part of them being eaten by people. Sibhi grows well in regions 40 degrees North, thereby locating the region at or near Altai mountains. (green circle in the picture below)


The interesting information from archaeology is that this region had Denisovan population which had become extinct around 40,000 years ago.

http://archaeology.about.com/od/dathroughdeterms/qt/denisova_cave.htm




The interesting part of the find is that the DNA deduced from this find is related to the DNA found in Pacific islands near Australia.

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/101222/full/4681012a.html




This goes to show that the Denisovan population once had its ancestry in the Southern hemisphere. So from south to north, some migration had happened which stayed put near Altai mountains or Siberia. When the climate became unbearable, the surviving population had migrated to the south which is what is being indicated in the Mahabharata (http://ancientvoice.wikidot.com/src-mbh-13:section-93 )

The description of finding of the Lotus in a pond signifies a new era of growth of human population in the south which happened around 30,000 years ago when Sunda land was a brimming landscape. The rationale behind locating this region for new growth of humans is because Yatudhani, the demoness who was involved in that description was said to be hiding in that lotus pond. Yatudhanaus were the Danava asuras who shared the Patala, Hiranyapura (of Hiranya kasipu) with Daityas. Even today many people in China and Vietnam use all parts of lotus for food like how Sibi was / is being used in Altai regions.

A decipherable history can be started from Sundaland which got that name from Sunda“ Upsunda episode in which Tilotthama was a small (like tila, the sesame seed in her name) trigger in the mantle which grew up and blew off the twin volcanoes called Sunda and Upasunda. Shiva turning his head all around to see Tiloththama can only be explained as a matter of samhara (destruction) by fire spewed on all sides of the volcanoes. The volcanoes stripped off the land on which they stood leaving what is now called as the Sunda straits.




An underwater exploration might reveal a blast off in the past.





The entire region of Sundaland was home to Daityas and Danavas until 7000 years ago. Until Mahabharat times, Danavas such as Kalakanjas and Nivata kavachas were there in this land who were defeated by Arjuna. The route taken by Arjuna to reach to these danavas and also the route described by Narada to Matali concur with each other and point out to Sundaland only. The details are being written in my Tamil series first and then translated later to be posted here. For the moment, I am saying these to show that history of 20,000 + years ago at Sundaland had all the trappings of the puranic narrations of daityas and danava asuras. Somewhere closely the early Pandyans rose in deep south around 12,000 years ago that was when the first sangam was established as per Nakkeeranar's account in Irayanaar Kalaviyal.

To tell it in a nutshell, take a look at the picture below.



The regions found within the red circles had scattered land forms about 7000 years ago. The first 3 circles starting from Madagascar from left to right had 49 locations as per old Sangam Tamil texts. (Explanations in the Tamil blog http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in based on Valmiki Ramayana description of the southern trail in chapter 41 in Kishkindha khanda)

The huge circle around Indonesia had Daitya and Danava people starting from 30,000 years BP until 7000 years BP. [5500 BC=Black Sea flood]

The Chinese, Japanese and Incas were Daityas.

The Europeans, Celts / Druids were Danavas. They co-existed with Danavas in this region.

Bali was the last powerful king (Daitya) of this region who died around 7000 years BP.

The yellow arrow marks show the dispersal of people during various time periods whenever there were volcanic or earthquake disturbances in this region.

The last dispersal happened about 3500 years ago.[1500 BC] That was when the last traces of old Tamil population in the Indian Ocean also got dispersed. The Pandyan king with some of his subjects managed to survive by taking the route through present day Kerala (Alwaye (Alawaay in Tamil – the name of the capital of the Pandyas of the 2nd sangam period. Known in Sanskrit as Kavatam. Kollam was lost in the seas and re-established as today's Quilon) on the south west tip of India.

Other people deep down the south dispersed to Polyneisan islands. Most of these regions bear similarity to old Tamil culture. Another group managed to cross the Pacific ocean through an underwater path in Nazcal ridge and reached Pacha kamaq and Titicaca. There is enough indication to assume that an under water cave path joins Easter islands and Pachakamaq on the western shore of Andes. Nazcal is Naccal which means Naga or serpent. The underground paths are inhabited by snakes and hence called as Naga territory in Indian culture.




One entry was at Pachakamaq and another was at a cave ending near Titicaca.






(Black arrow shows Pachakamaq entry and red arrow shows cave -entry near Titicaca lake)



Before this, around 7000 years BP the previous oceanic flood was described in Tamil texts. At that time many scattered regions were in the Indian ocean. A major area was Mascarene plateau

The circle around Madagaskar had a land huge enough of the size of Tamilnadu state of India. Called as Mascarene plateau this was high land 7000 years before present. Note the continuing chain leading to western part of India and South India.






At that time most regions south off sundaland were lost in the seas and there was a major shift towards West Indian ocean and near south Indian tip.

Most Danavas, (ancestors of Celts) migrated to North West India (Rajasthan, Haryana) and settled down to the east of Indus. From there they went over to Central Europe via Gandahar. North India was brimming with Vedic culture already then. The Celts carried a rudimentary form of Vedic culture.
Most daityas shifted to Chinese inland.

The previous flood [Superflood 2 of 3: the 3rd was the one about 5500 BC] before this time occurred when the Ice age came to an end. Around 13,000 years BP the western part of Indian ocean had many scattered regions that supported life. People were gradually moving towards north 10 to 15 degrees N as sun's path shifted to north. One group entered through river Sarasvarthy via Dwaraka (of those times, now submerged) from the Arabian sea, another entered through Persian gulf when that was inundated at the end of Ice age.


Those who entered India through Sarasvathi were Manu and they carried with them the already established Vedic culture. Their spoken language was Tamil in unrefined form. The unrefined Tamil was the spoken language of South Indian ocean. You will find its rudiments wherever the population of this region shifted - from Polynesia and Incas to Persia etc.

All Indian languages were derived from Sanskrit and Tamil only. This was recognized by early colonial writers in the 18th century India but later deliberately ignored when evangelical interests overtook all genuine research.

With all these, I also wish to say that the recent finding of the dating of Indus figurines to 7000 BC + is not at all amusing[Frivolous?]. The date of civilisation in this region would go upto 10,000 BC in the coming years with more researches taking place.

- Jayasree

****************

From

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/india/121116/indus-civilization-2000-years-old-archaeologists

Archaeologists confirm Indian civilization is 2000 years older than previously believed

Indian archaeologists now believe the ancient Indian civilization at Harappa dates back as far as 7500 BC.

Jason Overdorf



Miniature votive figurines or toy models from the Harappa region of Pakistan, ca. 2500. Recent archaeological findings proove the Indus River Valley civilization is up to 2,000 years older than previously believed. (one_click_beyond/Wikimedia commons)

NEW DEHLI, India ” When archaeologist KN Dikshit was a fresh-faced undergraduate, in 1960, a remarkable discovery pushed back the origin of civilization in the Indus River Valley by some 500 years. Now, he claims to have proof that pushes India's origin back even further ” making Indian civilization some 2,000 years older than previously believed."

"When Bhirrana [Rajasthan] was excavated, from 2003 to 2006, we [recovered artifacts that provided] 19 radiometric dates," said Dikshit, who was until recently joint director general of the Archaeological Society of India. "Out of these 19 dates, six dates are from the early levels, and the time bracket is forming from 7500 BC to 6200 BC."

Since the early excavations at Harappa and Mohenjodaro, in what is today Pakistan, the Indus Civilization has been considered among the world's most ancient civilizations — along with Egypt and Mesopotamia (in what is today Iraq).

In recent times, archaeologists divided the Indus Civilization into the pre-Harappan, mature Harappan and late Harappan periods. The pre-Harappan period was characterized by a primitive, Stone Age culture, while the late Harappan period featured sophisticated brick cities built on a grid system, with granaries, toilets and an as-yet undeciphered written language.

But the six samples discovered at Bhirrana include relatively advanced pottery, known as "hakra ware," that suggests the ancient Harappan civilization began much earlier than previously believed — and that its epicenter lies in the Indian states of Harayana and Rajasthan, rather than across the border.

As Dikshit and his colleague, BR Mani, current joint director general of the ASI, write in a recent note on their findings:

"The earliest levels at Bhirrana and Kunal yielded ceramics and antiquities ... suggesting a continuity in culture, right from the middle of the eighth millennium BCE onwards ... till about 1800 BCE."

That suggests the Harappan civilization is nearly as old as sites from West Asia such as Jericho, where evidence of a neolithic city has been found to date from as early as 9000 BC. But it also means that Harappa, with new proof of hakra ware dating to 7500 BC, may have been more technologically advanced — bolstering India's claim to the title of the cradle of civilization.

"When [John] Marshall excavated the Indus Valley Civilization [in 1922], he gave it the date of about 3000 BC," said Dikshit. "But when [Mortimer] Wheeler came in 1944, he gave a shorter chronology and put the Indus Civilization between 2450 BC and 1900 BC. Those dates were also supported when Carbon-14 dates started to come from other parts of the world."

"In 1960, in Kalimanga, we were only able to push it back a few hundred years. But with these dates [from Bhirrana] things have entirely changed."

Both Dikshit and Mani downplayed competition between India and Pakistan for bragging rights over the Indus civilization ” where the best archaeological site for tourists is in Mohenjadaro, in Pakistan's Sindh province. But the ancient has a way of bleeding into the modern, as various controversies have shown over the years.

Most prominently, perhaps, the so-called "horse theory," rooted in N.S. Rajaram's fraudulent claim that he had deciphered the Harappan script, introduced horses into a concocted history of the Harappan period in order to provide a missing link to the Vedic period in which the oldest scriptures of Hinduism were written.

Noted for his ties with the loonier side of Hindu nationalism, Rajaram pieced together a tale that suggested "Babylonian and Greek mathematics, all alphabetical scripts, and even Roman numerals flow out to the world from the Indus Valley's infinitely fertile cultural womb," according to Harvard Indologist Michael Witzel and comparative historian Steve Farmer.

But for Dikshit and Mani, manufactured controversies of that kind belong in the realm of politics, not archaeology.

"These things should not be raked up," said Dikshit. "I just don't want to give any statement on this. People are talking. There was an Aryan invasion, then Aryan immigration, then horse theory ” this theory, that theory. They are simply wasting their time

Posted byjayasreeat 10:47 PM


12 comments:



Anonymous said...

My few cents (with all due respect):


 
Theory that people moved from Easter Island to Nazca through under water cave system is not convincing. It would be more convincing to propose that the ridge (before 9600 BC) was above sea level from Nazca to Easter Island and then all the way to Soloman Islands.
November 29, 2012 at 1:13 PM




jayasreesaid...

Thanks for your comment.
The date of migration from Easter island (Polynesian islands) to the Andes (Inca) is around 3500 years ago and not in 9600 BC. We find a uniform connection to this time period in all the available evidences of this region.

First evidence which I strongly rely on is the 3rd submergence of Early Tamil lands that ended the 2nd Sangam period. This took place around 3500 years ago. That was a major catastrophic period in the Indian ocean and in the Indian sub continent too. That was the time Byt Dwaraka (the Dwaraka that came up after Krishna's Dwaraka was submerged) was submerged. Prof SR Rao's research on this submergence can be read on the net. A major earthquake also had occurred in the Saraswathy basin as a result of which the remaining part of the river (on whose banks most of Indus settlements were built) subducted. The result was a dispersal of people which colonial writers characterized as displacement of Dravidians as a result of Aryan invasion.

I mention this with elaboration to drive home the point that it was a major event in Tamilnadu history too. As Dwaraka residents came to Tamilnadu (today's Kongu belt), the displaced Pandyan with his subjects also came to the same region from the south Indian ocean. The details of this goes into many articles which can be read in my Tamil blog.

So 3500 years BP was a major landmark period that saw submergence and inundations that scattered people on all directions.

While Pandyans came through south west tip of India, there were many who were near the Sundalands' south west and southern regions, shifting towards the Pacific. The Lapita pottery, Tangata Manu tradition, olden Tamil practices such as fire walk, mat weaving traditions (of which Pattamadai weaving cult is a rudimentary )and many Tamil and sanskrit words are seen in the Polynesian islands only from 3500 years BP onwards.

One of the activities in these islands is to search for a new region for living. The eldest will automatically inherit the land of the family. The younger ones must have to sail in the ocean and if they find out a new island they can claim that and settle there. Such was the necessity that was there for thousands of years in the past.

Moreover all these polynesian islands were formed by volcanic eruptions. This is a major point of interest. There must be connecting mantle or lava ducts all over this region to give rise to these volcanoes. Once these ducts had cooled they become passages connecting these islands. Note that these passages are underground or underwater passages.

The Nazcal ridge is also one such lava duct seen under water. There is a tradition to call this as Naccal or Naga or serpentine which was recorded by James Churchward of Mu fame. Churchward thought that the epicentre of this name or culture was Japan, but he ultimately found the key to the secret in Kanchipuram in Tamilnadu. (google search Mu or Charchward). The concept of Naga territories under the water is Indian and we can give many instances of Naga people whose dwellings were underground and can be accessed from an opening in the land or hill or a cave.

Near Nagappattinam in the south east Tamilnadu there was a cave opening that led to underground Naga dwellings. The founder of historic Thondai naadu (Kancheepuram) was born to a woman from a cave here - underground Naga dwelling near Nagappattinam - and a Cholan king.

Google search "ninety East Ridge" and you will see the ridge in the Indian ocean which goes upto Nagaland in East India. There were many locations on this ridge conducive for living as per Ramayana account of Shugreeva.

Like this, Nazcal ridge stands a bright chance to offer passage upto South America. The Inca story of first man coming to Pachakamaq and Titicaca are about people coming out of a cave!! The Incas did not come by seas. They came through the caves. Google search Inca or read my Tamil series where these info have already been written.

(cont'd)

November 29, 2012 at 3:26 PM









jayasreesaid...

Two brothers had exited from the caves - one, close to the shore in Pacha Kamaq and another at Titicaca. How could some one exit from a cave on the sea shore? The only possible explanation is that the cave was the exit point of a long under sea passage. The Nazcal ridge fulfills that probability as it is formed by a volcanic duct that subducted under Pacha kamaq!

There are other corroboratory instances too. Incas were known to have built 'Chullpas' (plz google search or read Tamil series). They are nothing but cremation mounds built above the ground. Many Chullpas are now being discovered now in Peru. One interesting information is that the researchers think that all the Chullpas of this region were connected to the Sajama volcano. The chullpas were built on regions where underground lava ducts seem to pass through! You and I or any one in today's world do not know how to identify an underground lava duct pathway. The Incas knew!

Chullpas standing on a duct, probably was a better option to cremate the body. The interesting info on Chullpas is that entire families were cremated in Chullpas. That is, a chullpa is menat for the entire family. When some one dies, his or her body will be pushed through the only opening in the Chullpa and closed. The volcanic heat felt through the duct perhaps helped in disposing the body in the Chullpa.

Such a practice could have come into existence only among the people who lived in a region inevitably surrounded by volcanoes. The only such location in the world in a datable past was Sundaland. Due to paucity of land, the dead ones must have been pushed into a volcano in Sundaland. The people who had that practice in ancient times must have continued it in a new environment by building volcano shaped Chullpas and by connecting them with a nearby volcano.

Such a people must be more knowledgeable than anyone else in identifying underground or under water passages of lava ducts and explored them in the past. Such an exploration had come in handy in times of need when a huge earthquake or volcanic eruption had throttled the dwellers of South Indian ocean and Pacific ocean. They took a chance and entered the underwater duct- passages and found themselves at Pacha kamaq.

It must be noted that they first exited at Pacha kamaq. Another group further explored and ended up in the mountains of Andes near Titicaca lake.

They call these two groups as sons of Viracocha. This is Virochana, father of Bali! Viracocha established settlements. But on seeing the settlers not following his diktats, he went back by walking 'on the sea' says the Inca myth! This again shows that he came from the sea not through boats but through some undersea passage!!

All this happened only 3500 years ago when Nazcal was under the sea! The Titicaca (I had reasoned out in my Tamil blog that Titicaca was originally Diti-caca - Diti's people. Virochanva was a Daitya, of Diti!) people grow a kind of grass which is not seen anywhere in the South America but is seen in Easter islands only. It grows in Easter islands for 10s of thousands of years. From Easter island it was transported to Titicaca.

Assuming that the people carried the grass and crossed the seas, the South American shore was 4000 miles away. Then upon reaching the shore, they had to climb the mountains to reach Titicaca which was quite interior and on other side of the mountain top. This is the only visible route.

But if we take cues from Incan ancient stories (which you call myths), the first stop is at Pacha kamaq through underwater passage and then through another cave passage to Titicaca. The journey could have been safe and less weary even if it would take many days. Similar journey through the seas and then to the Titicaca also would take many days. But how many could have survived in the end and how the grass could have stayed fresh for plantation at Titicaca is anybody's guess.

November 29, 2012 at 3:26 PM









jayasreesaid...

Though people had lived in the Andes since 10,000 years ago, the Incas were latter entrants from the Pacific islands. Most other population since 10,000 years BP came through Berring strait from Russia as per Oppenheimer's genetic study. Refer my article on Indus girl and Indra loka

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2011/11/indus-girl-and-indra-loka-have-remnants.html


There I would have theorized that Incan sun god came through that route. But on further research on Mahabharata, and interfacing them with other available proofs, I come to the conclusion that an independent migration had taken place to the Titicaca. At the same time the Sun God Inti can not be any different from Vedic depiction because, the Berring strait route migrants also took with them the Sun concept of Vedic depiction.

November 29, 2012 at 3:34 PM





Murali (Chennai) said...

Dear Madam

This is a very interesting and highly informative. On googling on MU and Churchward, I came across a site, which states that a German Researcher has visited a secret library of ancient tablets in Ekambareswarer temple at Kanchipuram in 2010. ( http://www.philipcoppens.com/mu.html)
If it is true, why can not scholars and researchers like you get access to that library and arrange to micor film the tablets, so that they are preserved for further research.

It is really perplexing why such national treasure should be guarded as secret, instead of making it available for scholars.

Murali

December 6, 2012 at 7:56 PM









jayasreesaid...

Thanks for the comment Mr Murali. This gives me an opportunity to direct the readers to the more analytical works of mine. But they are in Tamil. Please go to this link in my Tamil blog to read and see the tablet that Churchward saw.

http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/2012/11/116_10.html

Even non- Tamil readers are requested to go to this site and scroll down to see the pictures displayed. The 5th picture that you will see as you scroll down is the tablet that Churchward saw.

It was actually the Yantra plate that is commonly seen in many houses in India. This plate was seen by him in the underground room below Ekambaranathar temple in Kancheepuram. He also saw hundreds of such plates there. He managed to take a photo of this plate. The symbols on the plate are not language, we Indians know. Some mantra- prayoga was done and some power was consecrated on this plate. This is purely for religious purpose in Hinduism.


While dealing on anything on Hinduism or Hindusthan, it is better these foreign researchers spend their life time or considerable part of their life in India and grasp the Hindu concepts before embarking on research. Or else they will be producing absurdities such as Aryan Invasion theories and Churchward's 'findings'!

December 6, 2012 at 8:30 PM



Vedic vikisaid...

Bro! Its a nice article, but could you please tell me where was the actual homeland of tamils and also of the vaivasvat manu?? His kingdom was destroyed in a massive deluge and he sailed to heigher lands of gangetic valley, But where did he exactly come from, and which is an older language tamil or sanskrit, or both have been derived from common proto language?? Im quite confused after reading your article, all the recent researches say that the oldest dravidian language is tamil which dates back to 200 BC, and it was derived from a dialect of sanskrit, both north indic aryans and south indians share the same ancestory though....so plz answer my questions!!?? :)

February 5, 2013 at 9:13 AM









jayasreesaid...

@ Vedic viki

There are many articles in this blogspot and in my Tamil series (http://thamizhan-thiravidana.blogspot.in/) where you can get the replies for your questions. May be you can start reading some of them by clicking the tag "Creation" in the side bar. If you know Tamil, read the the link I have given. Tamil - sanskrit connection in the past has been written there.

Now to your specific questions:-

# The deluge in the story of Vaivasvatha Manu happened at the end of Ice age, when sudden rise on water level happened in the Arabian sea. Manu and his men were settled on the west course of South India in the land that was exposed and extended to the west of the western ghats at that time. Search my blog for Graham Hancock and you will get into the articles where I have explained this using his inundation maps.

Dravida Proper was an considerably huge extension west off Maharashtra in the western extended land off the western ghats. That stretch was the only habitable region about 14,000 yrs BP. Until the Mahabharata period, (5000 yrs BP) bits and pieces of that stretch were above the sea level as small islands.

# Manu did not sail to Gangetic valley as the Ganges was still confined to Gangothri glacier then. Manu was pushed by the floods to Saraswathu river which was 4 KM wide at that time - via Dwaraka. That is why Dwaraka as the gate gained importance and was remembered throughout after that, and reclaimed every time it was inundated.

# What were the previous origins of Manu? By the meaning of the name Dravida, I infer that he ran away from a war / fight previously. He means, not just he but his ancestors. The previous incident in my opinion was the war of Daksha in which Shiva and his men destroyed Daksha's people by fire. I consider this as an allusion to the destruction by fire in an earlier era when mankind was huge in the scattered settlements in the Indian ocean. There is a Paripadal (sangam text) verse telling about the destruction caused by each of the Pancha Bhootha one by one in different time periods in the past.

The last destruction was by water, which wiped off the vital link between east Africa and Sundaland in the Indian Ocean. It started around 14,000 years and ended 3500 years ago in 4 spells of which the last 3 spells disturbed Tamil (Pandyan)settlements in the Indian Ocean.


(cont'd)

February 5, 2013 at 11:05 AM









jayasreesaid...

The destruction by fire occurred before this destruction by water. That was about the war of Daksha in which most people perished in the Indian ocean settlements. The remaining people had split into two, with one group moving towards arabian sea corridor and settling on the sea shore wherever the shore or extended land was available going up to the limit of Maharastra - Gujarat (Gujarat was not a peninsula then). These people - since they ran away were regarded as Dravida (the etymological meaning which was later modified by Manu himself as Kshatriya vratya.). They carried the proto tamil - called as 'Kodum Thamizh' which later came to be known as Apa-Brahmsa in Sanskrit

Sanskrit was already developed by then. Even as Manu and other survivors started their lives in the stretch off Western Ghats (they did not go inland of South India, probably because of the ghats as a barrier and also because the interior South India was a dense shrubby region not fit for habitation at that time. Hancock's maps show that.

At the same time, the other group that stayed on had drifted far-South in the Indian Ocean and established Tamil Sangam - of refined Tamil that we speak to day. The Sanskrit was already a developed one by the sages of the previous land before the fire-destruction. In my opinion that was known as Shaka Dweepa at that time. The details of this can be read in my Tamil blog. The varna culture was there and Shiva was the deity who gave the rule book of Dharma at that time. Tamil was the colloquial and spoken language of the people all over that region in the Indian ocean in south and south west Asia, including Sundaland.

After the fire- destruction (Daksha episode), population was reduced and separated which I explained above. The remaining people of that region started the Tamil Sangam which is dated at 12,500 years BP as per Irayanaar kalaviyal, a 10th century book. That is how we have the division of North and South genetic strains that had a common origin earlier.

(cont'd)

February 5, 2013 at 11:05 AM









jayasreesaid...

# This population further dates back to 25,000 years BP when Sundaland was an brimming with habitation. The puranic Sunda- Upasunda must be related to this region with geological meaning.

The Daitya Prahaladha, Virochana and Bali lived in Sundaland. In my opinion Varaha, Narasimha and Vamana avathara occurred in Sundaland. A splinter group after Narasimma avatara had landed in the east coast of Andhra pradesh (Vishaka pattna?) from there. The word Andhra means garland of intestines around the neck - a term which is mentioned in Runa vimochan sthothramm of Lord Narasimha. There is a group in Andhra which is genetically different from all the other people of India. Further studies are needed to check if their genetic markers match with any in regions around Sundaland. It must also be mentioned that Sundaland was the region of Kurma avatara. It was the turtle island that in mentioned by Meso American groups as their ancestral region. Anthropologically giant turtles lived in Sundaland. This land underwent many geological and volcanic disturbances as though a churning of the milky ocean was happening. The name Mandarin to Chinese language perhaps was derived from the Mandara malai base on this Turtle island and the churning of this region which is metaphorical of geological disturbances.

In this region, the equator splits the land as north and south (Deva and Asura). Like this we can keep telling a lot of things - all with the help of Mahabharata narrations. I will be writing them as separate posts in future.

In Hindu texts Sunda land was called as Swarnadweepa - where Hiranyapura of Daitya- Danavas was present. Gold smithy was at its peak in that region. Sanskrit (Vedic)was present at that time. Unrefined, pre-Sangam period Tamil was the spoken language.

Even before that time a former migration from the South to the North via NW India to Central Europe had happened according to genetic studies.

The gold smithy and stone works were carried by Danavas and Mayans to Central Europe. There is a genetic study that says that Neandardals were taught gold works by some advanced people some 40,000 years ago. That advanced people were these danavas.

Another proof of this is the golden Lion man discovered in Germany.
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.in/2013/02/ice-age-lion-man-is-worlds-earliest.html

This Lion man concept is Hindu concept, probably originating form Narasimha avatara that happened in Sunda land. I will write this later as an article.

February 5, 2013 at 11:05 AM



jayasreesaid...

@ Vedic viki,

One more thing. You have asked about the homeland of Tamils. If we go into the past as I wrote above, we find that there was NO specific identity as Tamils. People of a vast land spread across the Indian Ocean from Sundalamnd to Magagaskar spoke the proto Tamil which was then called as Madura. Google Madurese - that was also the shoot -up of Madura mozhi. Refer my Tamil blog for this in which I had established this name for ancient Tamil from Ramayana sources. I think I will soon get them translated into English.

Coming to the Tamil homeland, the speakers of early Tamil had spread out geographically over a vast region and were diverse as a people. By 3500 yrs ago, grammatical Tamil was established in all the 3 lands of Tamils namely Chera, Chola and Pandya. It happened with the last deluge when the last batch of Pandyan survivors landed in Madurai.

But by 9th century AD, many mixing of people had happened. As the 9th century Nacchinaarkkimniyar wrote in his commentary to Tholkappiyam, a small stretch of land in Madurai - Tanjore proper had people who spoke original grammatical Tamil around this time. In other words, the Tamil spoken in the early 3 lands of Chera, Chola and Pandya had shrunk to this region. All the rest - that include the different dialects of Tamil were not from Tamil proper people. They all had mixed origins and were from Manu's descendants.

Even the so-called Paraiahs of Chennai - which colonial period census records had recorded as numbering to 3 lakhs at that time, were all of north Indian descendance. They moved to madras then because they were not accepted within their communities for having taken to cow-slaughter and other slaughter during Muslim rule. Their spoken language was Kodum tamil which became Madras Tamil due to influence by English language which they picked up from the British whom they served in the then Madras.


The entire belt from Maharastra / Kolapur to Kanyakumari also had migrants from North India, settled over centuries. Their Kodum Tamil had a different slant and became regional dialects of Tamil in due course.

From all this you will see that identification of Tamil as a people or race has no basis. By speaking Tamil we regard ourselves as tamils.That is all. If we say that by speaking this language, a person gets a Tamil identity, then even the Tonga man in Polynesian islands must be regarded as a Tamil as he was a branch from the early settlement in Sangam period.

February 5, 2013 at 11:43 AM





jayasreesaid...

Dear Mr Murali,

Re-read your comments to day. Please take note that I have
posted a 2 part article in English on Mu and Lemuria. Read them here.

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2012/12/mu-to-lemuria-kumari-kandam-to-sumeria.html

http://jayasreesaranathan.blogspot.in/2012/12/mu-to-lemuria-kumari-kandam-to-sumeria_21.html

Got a response from Jack Churchward that Ritter's Kancheepuram plates were not original. The other plates of Kancheepuram are Tamil scripts of the last 3 centuries and not Mu language script.

February 5, 2013 at 11:50 AM

2 comments:

  1. Did the name "Siberia" come from 'Sibi', the plant Typha angustifolia?

    The site given below says the olden siberia was in the east of river Volga and (upto)upper valley of river Irtysh. Irtysh originates in Altai mountains. This is the location of Sibi plant.

    http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4204202?uid=3738256&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101928379383

    ReplyDelete
  2. That is possible, although the origins for the name "Siberia" are disputed. There has been some attempt to relate it to the Eastern "Iberia" which is in the Caucasus Mountains area.

    ReplyDelete

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