Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Thursday, March 1, 2012

Roots of American R1 Y DNA


[This blog entry follows after the earlier posting:
As mentioned before, I consider the distribution of YDNA group R to be transAtlantic and significant. The Western European R group has been stated to have a distribution suggesting Megalithic Europe (B on the map below) but on the website where I got the maps, it was noted that the distribution is really more like the Magdalenian Upper Paleolithic or early-Mesolithic (Map A below) In either event, the Basque region is mentioned as a center of distribution and dispersal.

As far as the American R groups go,Some suggestion has been made that they represent post-=-contact European mixing. The DNA seems to old and too firmly entrenched for that (See map below from the Wikipedia entry) The American R groups are called "R1-M173"as being nommittal, M173 is the classification for ALL subsequent R types. Actually the American R types show a distinctive resemblance to the European type. Furthermore, the distribution on the map is obviously more especially Algonquin and Canadian: if it was actually a matter of greater admixture with European whites, the distribution should show more of it in the USA than in Canada. Obviously this more tends to reinforce the view that the Algonquins came from Megalith-Builders of Europe and they retreated into Canada with the coming of the Europeans.  So presumably, both Magdalenians and Megalith-builders are  involved. And this goes directly to the matter of the Hopewellians and Archaics because it would seem that that they came in with persistent Magdalenian traits and thereafter continued on persisting.
The start of this line of thinking was the article on this blog concerning the idea that The Mitchell-Hedges Crystal skull actually depicted an ethnic type which was independantly pegged by other authors as being the last wave of immigrants out of Atlantis just before the crash:
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/mitchell-hedges-crystal-skull-is.html

The migrations out of Atlantis being defined by Lewis Spence as varieties of CroMagnons that appeared mysteriously in Europe one after each other. The last two of these waves were Magdalenian and Azilian cultures, as defined archaeologically. These followed after the Solutrean period.
The matter of Lewis Spence's theory of Cromagnon Migrations was touched on in the recent blog posting on The Last Wave out of Atlantis:
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2012/02/last-wave-out-of-atlantis.html
Which segued into the followup posting on South America and the Archaic cultures:
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2012/02/taking-of-south-america-in-atlantean.html

Cutting the theory here, the Solutrean is also significant as being the suspected ancestral source for the Paleoindians of the Americas and the Clovis culture in specific. That blog posting was followed up by another article:
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/some-largescale-migrations-into-new.html

Which basically was a simplified presentation of my doctoral thesis presented at IU, based on the different types of skulls shown by early Americans and my specialization being in the measurement and comparison of human skulls. (The paper passed with reccomendations but it turned out I did not use that one as a doctoral thesis, as there were some sensitive issues involved)

Both the more recent blog postings on the Brazillian Moundbuilders and the North American ones (Hopewellians and asociated Archaics) were in part derived from that original work although there has been a lot more information more recently and some of that very important in updating the overall theory. My work on the Adenas, Dinarics, Beaker-Folk and Legendary Giants was an outgrowth of that original study, an interesting sideline. I cannot say when I had the first outlines for the theory but it would have been in the 1980s when I was in IU in Bloomington: the final paper was submitted in 1995.
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2012/02/american-cromagnons-archaics-and.html
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2012/02/brazillian-moundbuilders.html
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/fomorian-giants-adenas-and-giants-of.html

And in this case, the matter of the R1 DNA was another b Blog entry posted last March:
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/y-chromosome-dna-and-last-atlantean.html

Which has some followup and some updates but basically there are all the related postings.

After identifying these fossil types of European humans with the Archaics and Hopewellian, it seems to me that we have gone on to show they were YDNA R groups too, at least up to 50% so, and that they could have up to that 50% as YDNA group Q gained through admixture with the previously-established  Native types. And the Europeans in the Megalth-builder category would be predominantly YDNA R  carrying foreward from their Mesolithic and Magdaleninan forebearers, as can be seen from the maps above. The ranges of these YDNA genes is the same as the Geographic range of the owners of these types of skulls.. The Mesolithic skulls in the drawing at drawing on bottom show some variety of the immigrant types with both longer-headed and shorter-headed types. BOTH sorts would be carrying the R YDNA identifying mutations.The idea is that the strains would contain admixtures from other strains on their mother's sides, hence the variation in physical appearance, but with males of a single and united ethic grouping, hence all the males were of the same signiture Y chromosome DNA type.


Mesolithic/Neolithic European wielding a groundstone ax (Celt) (Reconstruction)
See also the blog posting on the Megalithic connections to the Algonquin Language family of NE North America. These would also be connected to the same DNA groupings although the American populations were more mixed:
http://frontiers-of-anthropology.blogspot.com/2011/03/megalith-builders-red-paint-people-and.html

Best Wishes, Dale D.

9 comments:

  1. dale, why is it not conceivable that it is a form of island dwarfism that affected erectus like me and you were taught in university? i mean other then the lack of tell tale hand axe. what was or is wrong with that theory?

    ReplyDelete
  2. There is a sort of a stereotype that Academics are old stick-in-the-mud, conservative types. I think it's a problem of public perceptions. Scientists and scholars are all highly diverse and hold highly diverse opinions. It is more the school's administration that determines what passes approval to teach in the classroom. These administrators are freqwuently tied up in red tape due to pressure from the public sector, local politics and legal issues; and as a matter of fact are not only not up on all of the latest theories, they often have no real knowledge of the subject matter they are putting the blikers on. It is an insane system but it is what goes on far too frquently.

    Best wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Dale

    This looks like a fascinating hypothesis. But, as a new visitor to your site, I feel like I'm missing a whole chunk of info. That and the lack of links and explanatory keys to your maps/photos/diagrams make whatever great discovery this is quite opaque to me.

    all the best
    Sam

    ReplyDelete
  4. Sam, you may have put your finger on it right off: I was thinking readers have been following right along and kreeping up with what I had been saying in past posts. The "Meaty" part of this theory was outlined some months ago and the part about the skulls more recently, and I only just put two and two together to realise that these skulls go with that population that has those genes. I shall go ahead and post links to the older postings that go with this idea and add a little more explanation for latecomers such as yourself, or even regular readers that might be less into this stuff than I am.
    Which would mean just about everybody, I suppose.

    I'll try to get an improved, updated version of the post ready by tomorrow.

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I meant to say "Keeping up" instead of "Kreeping up" that was a typo, no insult and no Freudian slip intended!!

    ReplyDelete
  6. Hehe! That wily old fraud, ooops, I mean Freud gets everywhere!

    Anyways, that's great news, Dale. I'm looking forward to the updated version.

    all the best
    Sam

    ReplyDelete
  7. This is what I've been trying to say for ages, that the R1 found in the American continent is pre-Columbus, and yet I get made fun of.

    I believe we will learn more once there are SNP tests done on the Algonguin peoples.

    Keep the research coming, I am sure that in the near future DNA tests will substantiate your claims.

    Cheers

    Zjak

    ReplyDelete
  8. I have known since my days at Indiana University that low levels of Western European genetic traits occur in Natives of Eastern North America and especially Algonquin types, and that among these traits are low levels of the Rhesus-negative gene. These traits cannot have been accidentally introduced and they seem to be ancient.

    It seems that BOTH Q and R Y-DNA in the Americas is TransAtlantic and introduced by groups of aggressive males, who probably had European type A and X mt DNA females with them but more especially mated with the females of the mt DNA types that had come over by way of Beringia. The Q probably represents the original Solutreans. The Q males did such a complete job that we find no Y-DNA that we can say for certain came by way of Asia and even the Inuits and Dene/Athabascans have the Q Y-DNA now. The R group came later than the Q people, but once again their males took over and mixed with Native women, leaving little trace of their menfolk except for their relatives the Q people. And when the R1 people came back into Western Europe and Northern Africa, we see the same thing: this strain of Y-DNA introduced through the males and superimposing itself upon whatever women were living there before, as represented by ther various mitochondrial DNA strains.

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
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