Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Friday, January 13, 2012

Some Largescale Migrations into the New World II



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)

I had commented before on my opinion that both YDNA groups Q and R indicated TransAtlantic populations in the Pleistocene, that both came over at Solutrean times about 20000 years ago or a little later, as near as can be reckoned. I suppose that is possible although the evidence for the Q migration needing to go that way might seem to be weak. It does seem that the Q group was more common in Europe and NE North America and then became less than dominant with the expansion of R1 strains in those areas. The R evidently replaced the Qs. You DO still have some Q populations in parts of the British Isles (Scotland) and in Iceland. Therefore at one-time its presence in the Atlantis area seems more likely. R and Q both descended from P as parallels. The American R is at a primitive (early) level of development and the more standard R YDNA genes in Europe, Russia and India is related but probably more advanced. The African R1b no doubt came from the North over the Sahara, I don't know that it has been proven to come into West Africa by way of the Nile Valley. The article quoted earlier seemed to be saing that the R1b which invaded Western Europe at the end of the Ice Age seems to have come from the New World and is not related closely to the R1a of Eastern Europe, India and Africa. Its distribution does correspond very closely with the Megalithic culture in Europe and the TransAtlantic R does correspond very well to the distribution of the Algonkian languages (Almosan. See the earlier article on the Algonkians and the Red Paint People) So both of those things make a good deal of sense.The Q YDNA population from Central Asia could conceivably vave gootten into the New World from going either East or West: I just suppose that it was the Atlantean population (or part of it) at an early stage. Neither haplogroup Q nor R is common in Eastern Asia or Siberia and the Far-Eastern Siberian concentration of Q is thought to have come back over from North America.

The distribution of haplogroup subsection C3 is good evidence for the connection to the Na-Dene (Athabascan) peoples of the New World, and this is remarked upon by the Wikipedia article. The genes also drifted generally into the Plains populations and that is to be expected from what we already know. In the old World, there is good representation in Central Asia, Mongolia and Eastern Siberia which also makes sense because people of those areas have skulls most like the Na-Dene (these are New-Mongoloid, Inner-Asiatic traits and not the traits of the periopheral and less specialised peoples) The Na-Dene languages seem to be especially related to Central and East-Asian languages, Including Chinese but also some Central-Siberian ones.






Genetic groups according to DNA Tribes

1. Arctic
4. North Amerindian
5. Ojibwa
7. Mayan
9. Andean
Genetic classification
The haplogroup most commonly associated with Indigenous Americans is Haplogroup Q1a3a (Y-DNA).[54] Y-DNA, like (mtDNA), differs from other nuclear chromosomes in that the majority of the Y chromosome is unique and does not recombine during meiosis. This has the effect that the historical pattern of mutations can easily be studied.[55] The pattern indicates Indigenous Amerindians experienced two very distinctive genetic episodes; first with the initial-peopling of the Americas, and secondly with European colonization of the Americas.[56][57] The former is the determinant factor for the number of gene lineages and founding haplotypes present in today's Indigenous Amerindian populations.[56]
Human settlement of the Americas occurred in stages from the Bering sea coast line, with an initial 20,000-year layover on Beringia for the founding population.{hypothetical} The micro-satellite diversity and distributions of the Y lineage specific to South America indicates that certain Amerindian populations have been isolated since the initial colonization of the region..[60] The Na-Dené, Inuit and Indigenous Alaskan populations exhibit haplogroup Q (Y-DNA) mutations, however are distinct from other indigenous Amerindians with various mtDNA mutations.[61][62][63] This suggests that the earliest migrants into the northern extremes of North America and Greenland derived from later populations{secondary migrations}.[64]

Below, the corresponding correlations with mtDNA, also from Wikipedia. Once again, A, B, and X are out of the EUROPEAN  subsection of mtDNA haplogroups with poor representation in Mainland East Asia and Siberia, C and D are from Central-Asian origins. Based on studies in other areas, it seems that the B group is also present on the Pacific Islands and may have come across the Pacific from Sundaland (it would have been a population in Sundaland out of the Western group by way of Central Asia, but the Upper Cave skulls in China suggest that such a thing had happened) BUT the A group is closely related to the mtDNA X group and I would assume traveled along with it. It woyuld therefore be TransAtlantic and any Siberian populations derived from a Bering backcrossing OUT of America. Since we have such things as Folsom-like or Plano points in Siberia which have no local antecedants and had to have come across from America in a developed state, and hence we already know such movements did take place.


Incidentally I did come across these photos of the "Redheaded Giant" skulls in a museum at Humbolt, Nevada so I thought I'd include them. They are similar to skeletons said to derive from "Indian mounds" in the East, These are undeformed and the facial height is about normal (if that is actually a quarter placed in the case for scale, a quarter is a little bit less than an inch across).


Best Wishes, Dale D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_peoples_of_the_Americas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerind_languages

13 comments:

  1. mining and trade could account for the mixing

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110519101231.htm

    ReplyDelete
  2. Part you didn't mention and I quote:
    "An estimated 700 cubic meters and 2,000 tons of rock were extracted from the mine. Carbon dates for charcoal and shells found in the mine suggest it was used continuously from around 12,000 years ago to 10,500 years ago, and then used again around 4,300 years ago. The researchers also found more than 500 hammerstones dating back to the earliest use of the mine."
    In other words it was in use during the Atlantean era and ended at the fall of Atlantis, precisely at Otto Muck's date, and then was not used again until Sumerian times! I would not be surprised at all if there were other mines for copper and gold at the same time which had not been identified yet. However the part I just indicated is probably important to know. Incidentally, Peruvians had a word for iron, probably orignially for the ore (red ochre, which is basically mineral rust.)

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  3. BTW, I know you had also seen the article "Some Consideration on Deluge Traditions" It is my contention that the Arks were originally freight-carrying ORE ships.

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  4. THAT is an interesting possibility. Perhaps it was the norm also for pioneers to venture out with all of their food on board (animals and plants) to set up new homes and look for new mining sites.

    ReplyDelete
  5. That is also an interesting possibility. Back in the days of the big sailing boats and long voyages around the world, sailors kept livestock (cows, pigs, goats, etc) and ate them along the way: Galopagos tortoises were especially esteemed because they'd go to sleep in the hold and didn't need to be fed.

    In the Mediterranean, at the close of the Pleistocene, we DO get evidence for the colonists making a landfall onto Cyprus and bring with them all sorts of game animals (deer, pigs, foxes, wildcats, hedgehogs, etc) and I said at the time I posted a news item on this that it sounded distinctly like the colonists were sailing in "Arks" with all of their livestock aboard, "Livestock" in this case meaning not only their domesticated animals, but allso the ones that they liked to hunt and intended to set loose on the island for the purpose.

    Another thing is that apparently the Atlanteans had the same problems as Australians: they'd set loose rabbits on different islands and soon the rabbits would take over. Spence mentions something to the effect, and says that when the Portugese took over the Azores there were rabbits on the islands.

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Incidentally, with the major extinction of animals at the end of the Pleistocene, the mere fact that the familiar Old World domesticated cows, goats, horses, and so on did not survive until the postglacial period does NOT mean necessarily that the Atlanteans did not try to introduce such things, only that the Atlanteans' livestock died out along with the Native American megafauna (which did include horses)

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  7. or they took them back home with them

    ReplyDelete
  8. That is also possible, because it does look like the First Americans at the Clovis level were basically unsettled rovers and harvesting the natural wealth of the land, which in North America meant things like furs and ivory. I don't think they were responsible for an overkill, I think more that they were operating like the old-time mountain men. But we can also tell that they were killing A LOT of animals at the time, such as driving herds of buffalo into gullies or even trenches that they dug, and then skinning them all one after the other (we know this because of the massed skeletons, the buffalo were skinned and butchered on the side facing up, then flipped over to work on the other side: mammoths and mastadons were evidently herded into bogs and it has been suggested that the laBrea tar pits were used as kill-traps by the first Natives of the area: Ivan Sanderson wrote an article about the possibility in an early issue of PURSUIT.
    So: in North America they were harvesting furs, hides and horns, and probably even preserved meat in mass quantities if they could manage it: in the Southern US, Central America, and Northern South America they were harvesting timer for boatbuilding and colonial construction projects, and we now have confirmation (through Drusin) that they were definitely mining in Peru at that exact point in time.

    Atlantis seems to have been arranged somewhat along the lines of Rome during the Roman Empire, with all sorts of raw materials being sent back to the central island (and governed through the circle-city) with some more valuable manufactured items (nephrite jade celts in large quantities included, and shell money!) sent out to the colonials as compensation, probably statuary and such, but doubtless items of a religious or politically-prestigious cultic nature. And military men were rewarded for their good service by granting them large estates to run in the provences. It has also been suggested that the arrangement under the Atlanteans must have been similar overall to the plantation and hacienda systems set up by the Spanish and Portugese later because the later subjects of the Spanish and Portugese tended to speak of them as being the same thing over again (as in "The Return of Quetzalcoatl" and such prophesies), however we cannot know how accurate such comparisons might have been. Some Anthropologists speak of the Hispanic colonials as integrating well with the local systems because the locals were pre-conditioned to work that way. Since this could well be due to the colonials justifying their own past actions after the fact, there is always an element of uncertainty in accepting such statements. I do remember having discussions in such matter at Anthropology classes at IU during the 1980s.

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "So: in North America they were harvesting furs, hides and horns, and probably even preserved meat in mass quantities if they could manage it: in the Southern US, Central America, and Northern South America they were harvesting timer for boatbuilding and colonial construction projects, and we now have confirmation (through Drusin) that they were definitely mining in Peru at that exact point in time."
    The word intended for the one italicized was of course TIMBER, sorry the typo got through and I hope nobody had trouble understanding the intent!

    There is also the companion tradition that the "Sin of the Antediluvians was abuse of the environment and abuse of the natural resources

    Best Wishes, Dale D.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Jared Diamod's book Guns Germs and Steel would be well worth the read to understand environmental impacts of human activities

    ReplyDelete
  11. Na-Dene speakers are related to some native siberians, not east asians.

    east asian languages are isolated. only includes sino-tibetan family.

    Also the culture of na-dene people is very different from east asians.

    ReplyDelete
  12. if you ask a normal east-asian, they have never heard of any story related to na-dene people. east asians even do not know about the exact history of siberians.

    absolutely not related.

    ReplyDelete
  13. I must inform you that you misunderstood, we are not just talking (ordinary) Normal East-Asian in this case, we are talking Inner-Asian-Related-To Normal-East-Asian,but separate, Migration-Date-Into-America-Prior-to 1000-BC. Very few people antwhere are aware of political and ethnic alliances three thousand years earlier. So I'm afraid your objection doesn't count for much.

    ReplyDelete

This blog does NOT allow anonymous comments. All comments are moderated to filter out abusive and vulgar language and any posts indulging in abusive and insulting language shall be deleted without any further discussion.