Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Sunday, September 11, 2011

Not by Alexander's Fleet

The Mauryas and the Mayas 

The World (Political) in 300 BC
(Click on Picture to Enlarge Map)
  The earlier Blog posting "Pretty Ladies and Indus Script" basically made an anchoring point upon which to continue telling an ongoing story that was going on basically behind everone's back during the Classical period of recognised history. In his book Men Out of Asia, several migrations out of the Old World into the New introduced new peoples, artifacts, concepts and levels of culture. Then at the end Gladwin put his Migration Number 6 which was in many ways the most controversial of all: it introduced Civilisation, introducing traits of the highly advanced cultures of the Mid-East, South Asia and China to the West Coast of America directly by way of a sea passage full across the Pacific. Gladwin attributed this movement to being the result of Alexander the Great's Indian Ocean fleet left idling after the death of Alexander the Great. This is referred to even by supporters of Gladwin as "The Nearchus Fantasy"-Nearchus being the name of Alexander the Great's admiral. Alexander the Great died in 323 BC, after his army basically chickened out rather than directly face the military might of Mauryan India.

Above-Maurya Dynasty
Below-Mayan Influence in MesoAmerica

 The Essence of the Blog article"Pretty Ladies and the Indus Valley Script" and its sequels (including the article on the close parallel between the Mayan caste system and Ancient India) has been that the parallel between post-Harrapan India and very early Mexico is to strikingly close to be coincidental, and that presumably the colony in Mexico had originated in India, perhaps with several crossings of the Pacific between 1000 and 500 BC.

In fact it seems that the Mayas derived from the Mauryas, possibly by way of the Malays.

The oldest dates recorded in Hieroglyphics of the Mayan system are just before 300 BC and are thus presumably related to what Gladwin termed this Migration 6. But more important than that is the fact that both the Mayan and Hindu calendars started about 3100 BC and the two dates are in fact about a dozen years apart-easily close enought to have beeen the same date originally and then gotten slightly out of synch in the two systems in different hemispheres.  Of especial note also is the fact that the system of Mathematics and Astronomy is similar in the two regions and the Mayas had inexplicably gained the use of a figure representing zero.
Culture Heroes, From Men Out of Asia
Harold Gladwin assumed that the Mathematicians and Astronomers of India and the other high culture areas of the Old World had been brought to the New World to start up new civilzations there by the idling fleet of Alexander the great. To bolster this view he pointed out a good many similarities between the two areas including red pottery tripods, figurines with "Coffee-bean" eyes, and the Egyptian type of vertical loom. He does admit that the same assemblage of cultural traits does not necessarily occur together in the same area on either side of the ocean.Gladwin WAS talking about transplanting full-blown civilisations into the New World without any local predecessors. In the case of the Indians landing on the West Coasts of the Americas, there are good indications that they came after earlier Zhou Chinese.
 
Men Out Of Asia Migration No.6
For an overview of Gladwin's life and work, and his contributions to Anthropology and Archaeology, please see the wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_S._Gladwin

From the Indian perspective the same Pacific crossings are presented in a rather different manner (Notably by leaving Alexander the Great out of the picture):

Transpacific Routes by Equatorial Currents known to Indians equivalent to Roman Empire Days.

Ancient Indians called the Other Hemisphere Pataladesa
Dr. Balaram Chakravarti author of The Indians And The Amerindians has written:
It will be evident from a close study of the texts of Indian Astronomy that Latin America was known to Ancient Indians, who called it Pataladesa. The Surya Siddhanta, a textbook of Astronomy, composed before 500 A.D. identifies and describes Pataldesa in very clear and definite terms in the chapter of geography (chapter xii). 
The Surya Siddhanta categorically says that the Devas and Asuras live on the earth. The Devas live in the northern hemisphere while the Asuras live in the Southern hemisphere and have a tradition of enmity against each other. It further says that the ocean which surrounds the poles of the earth has divided the planet into two great continents, viz. the continent of the Devas and the continent of the Asuras. The Brahmanas of India write the epithet Deva-Serman after their names thus describing themselves as the Devas.
When the Sun is in the northern hemisphere eg. in Aries, he appears first to the Devas, and again when the Sun is in the southern hemisphere, he appears first to the Asuras. When the Sun is on the Equator both the Devas and the Asuras find the Sun in the middle and the days and nights are equal. As the Sun proceeds to the northern hemisphere, the Devas experience summer because of the directness and intensity of the solar rays, the Asuras do not get the rays so directly then and its intensity is also less, the sun being in the northern hemisphere. Hence they experience winter during this time. This obviously indicates that Pataldesa was South America.
The Surya Siddhanta explains how the people living on opposite ends of the globe consider themselves, wrongly, as living on the upper and lower part of the globe, though there cannot really be an upper or lower part, of the globe, which moves in vaccuum.
Maya, the author of Surya Siddhanta, also mentions the four great cities situated on the opposite ends of the world, equidistant from one another. 1. Yamakotipura in Bhadrasvavarsa (Indonesia?) in the east, Lanka in Bharatvarsa (India) in the south and 3. Rome in Ketumalavarsa (Europe) in the west and Siddhapura in Kuruvarsa (America?) in the north. 
The celebrated astronomer Bhaskaracarya mentions the time difference between the important cities situated in different parts of the world in his Siddhanta Siromani (Goladhyaya) thus:
"When the sun rises at Lanka, the time as at Yakakotipura to the east of Lanka, will be midday. Below the earth at Siddhapura, it will be twilight then, and at Romakadesa in Europe, the time will be midnight."
 Accurate time difference of places around the world found in ancient Sanskrit texts

(image source: The Indians And The Amerindians - By Dr. B. Chakravarti  p. 34-110).

From such location of places round the globe and the movement towards the east, it appears that many Indian merchants used to sail frequently and some even settled down in Indonesia and Indochina, who used to relay on to Polynesia and then further on to South or Middle America, may be not a single ship and in a single effort, but after stopovers at the important ports on the other islands-chain of which seems to have existed then and some of which submerged later because of tectonic movements. It seems that some contact with the cities mentioned by Bhaskaracharya might have existed till his time.

Indic Influence is South east Asia: Chandi Sukuh Hindu Temple dedicated to Bhima of Mahabharata in Indonesia strikes a disquieting alien chord with its flat topped step pyramid and its Mayan calendar carvings
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Pacific.htm#i n d i a    o n    p a c i f i c    w a v e s
Gordon Eckholm noted similar decorative motifs both in India and the Mayan lands and wrote of the striking resemblances in the 1960s and 1970s. His work was unusual in that the mainstream scientists did accept his diffusionist ideas and his theories were published in such places as the Scientific American.


In all of these examples from Eckholm, the Indian examples are on the left and the Mayan equivalents are on the right.









Gladwin lists several cultural traits in common between the Old World and the New World as noticed by Baron Nordenksjold, and he remarks on pages 257-258 of Men Out of Asia: "The prototypes of those culture traits which are distinctive of Mexico, Central America, and the Andean Region can be traced almost exclusively to Polynesia, Melanesia, India and the Middle East" [By which he intends to imply a backtracking of the diffusion of these traits to their source. In this case, the diffusion to Polynesia is a separate matter and although the mariners must have crossed the Pacific, there is no reason to assume that they settled Polynesia at the same time. Also the Middle-Eastern traits are also supposedly coming out of India and by way of India. Genetic studies would seem to confirm that some lines of Pacific Islanders did originate in Southern India, but they are presumably some very old lines of descent]

Traits listed by Nordenskjold include sewn-plank canoes, outriggers and double-canoes, triangular and square sails of matting, bark cloth and paper, and the equipment to mechanically beat the bark into paper, diamond-shaped paddles with a crutch handle, fishing by throwing a chemical powder on the water to stun the fish, fishing by use of trained cormorants and otters,and catching sea turtles by use of a remora (shark-sucker fish) Basically the same types of fish hooks and fish spears (and forks) were used in both areas, and the same types of helmets and torso armour, slings, short throwing and stabbing clubs, square and round shields, blowguns, signal gongs (drums) and pan pipes (syrinx). And there is also the same proceedure which is used for chewing Betel nut in the Orient, or tobacco or coca leaves in the New World: get a gourd filled with lime, take some of the lime out with a swizzle stick and put it in your mouth to kill the taste, and then chew on your appropriate stimulant until you get to like the effect.

There is more than this in detail that Gladwin includes (a dozen chapters and 120 pages of Men Out of Asia), including also details of many types of potteryand its decoration; textiles with silk cloth, Indus valley cotton, batik and tie-dyeing; and metallurgy including the making of bronze and lost-wax casting- some items of which, like the metallurgical processes, were probably introduced into the Maya lands and later lost again. Bronze objects are known from Mesoamerica in Archaeology but the later peoples were not supposed to know the process. Gladwin concludes one chapter with this scenario:

"Instead of thinking of certain assemblages of traits as having been brought to America by diffusion, try, for a moment, to think of them as being stolen at some point from Asia. Begin by supposing that an establishment in Delhi reported to the police that some bronze figures, some gold bells, a vertical loom, some tripod pottery trays, a roll of tapestry and a selection of other woven goods had been stolen.
"The theft was broadcast and picked up by the police in, say, Peru or Guatemala or Mexico.

"None of these articles had formerly been  known to exist in any of these places, but all of them are now found by the Peruvian police in a man's house in, say, Nazca.
"Do you think the authorities would be satisfied with an explanation that the man had succeeded in independantly inventing each and every item through a series of fortuitous discoveries followed up by another series of purposeful inventions?" (Men Out of Asia, 1947, pgs 332-333)

Also Cited:
Eckholm, Gordon F.,1964 “Transpacific Contacts,” Prehistoric Man in the New World, ed. by Jesse D. Jennings and Edward Norbeck. University of Chica­go Press, Chicago

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