Deluge of Atlantis

Deluge of Atlantis
Deluge of Atlantis

Tuesday, September 27, 2011


A couple of weeks ago, Jack Churchward, owner of the My-Mu site, sent me a copy of his latest book about the Lost Continent of Mu. This book goes through James Churchward's scrapbooks to identify the original sources. It is quite an interesting book and as soon as I get the chance, I shall be posting the review here.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

Thursday, September 15, 2011

Lacandon Mayas and Malay Mayas

Bearded Maya Man

Lacandon Maya, Looking very much like an inhabitant of India.
In "Lost Continents" lore, there is an ongoing debate about representations of "Bearded gods" represented on the old Maya monuments. As part of a discussion on the matter at one time, L. Sprague DeCamp mentioned that some Mayas among the Lacandons in the Mexican state of Chiapas regularly grew beards: and furthermore that they were shorter and darker in colouring than other Mayas, and besides having beards they sometimes had abundant curly head-hair, long braincases as opposed to short ones, and low noses as opposed to higher and arched ones. In other words, they were very unlike the usual conception of Mayas and were more like the Australoids, South Asians and Veddoids of India. This was not an especially shocking revelation since it has been known that the "Australoid" type skulls have been around in Mexico for a long time. In this case the people were not really "Australoids" inthe generic sense: they actuually reallky did represent some inhabitants of India more than any other population on the world. Going by Mitochondrial DNA groups, there is a trend of one group which came out of Asia and into America and is also found inthe Pavcific Islanders (in Polynesia): It is the "Kon Tiki" mitochondrial DNA lineage and it is found in some islands off of the Asian Continent especially. Indonesia is one such a place where it is found. In the Indian and Pacific ocean areas generally, it occurs alongside a very old group Out of Africa, the "M" mitochondrial DNA series, which spread outward from India to go on into Indonesia, Australia, China and elsewhere. So the genetic markers are all for a TransPacific movement by way of India and into the Western coast of the Americas.

Lacandon Maya Woman

Don Antonio-Lacandon Spiritual Leader

Lacandon area, State of Chiapas, Pacific Coast of Mexico.

On the other hand the evidence does suggest TWO lineages going across the Pacific and one much older in origin than the other, one South-Asian and the other Central-Asian in Origin. I suggest that the Mayas which seem to have the more marked Central-Asian genes came by way of the later peoples called Malaya, or Deutero-Malays (these are the "Ethnic Malays" that identify themselves as Malays and not the older "Indonesians" which include also the ancestors of islanders from Madagascar to Easter Island)
Deutero Malays
The earlier Proto Malay groups were later pushed inland by the Deutero Malay settlers in the second wave of migration around 300 BC.[12] The Deutero Malays are Iron Age people descended partly from the Chams of Mainland Southeast Asia who came equipped with more advanced farming techniques and new knowledge of metals.[13] They are kindred but more Mongolized and greatly distinguished from the Proto Malays which have shorter stature, darker skin, slightly higher frequency of wavy hair, much higher percentage of dolichocephaly and a markedly lower frequency of the epicanthic fold.[14] The Deutero Malay settlers were not nomadic compared to their predecessors, instead they settled and established kampungs which serve as the main units in the society. These kampungs were normally situated on the riverbanks or coastal areas and generally self-sufficient in food and other necessities. By the end of the last century B.C, these kampungs beginning to engage in some trade with the outside world .[15]
The Deutero Malays are considered as the direct ancestors of present day's Malay people.[16] Their series of migration had indirectly forced some groups of Proto Malays and aboriginal people to retreat into the hill areas of the interior further upriver.

[It would seem that the Deutero Malays probably started before the Chams with Dong Son traders also from Vietnam and in a mixed metal age. Some of the design motifs that turn up in South America about this time on the West Coast onf South America are also Dong Son like in appearance and this has been noted on an earlier blog posting. Pipes (for smoking) turn up in the Dong Son and related cultures in Southeast Asia in this period also. There are also some striking similarities between Cham, early Indonesian, and Colombian golden statues representing human figurines, presumably deities, beginning about 500 BC and carrying on foreward from then-DD]

 Some examples of Ethnic Malays from over the internet. In the group photo in fancy dress, the one woman second from the left has a strongly Maya look. Carved stone figures from the Maya Classic period can strongly resemble the older carved stone sculptures of the Megalithic phase in Indonesia: this Eastern Megalithic also seems to go out from Southern India to Indonesia and New Guinea, and then out to the Pacific where the Ancestry of the Pacific Islanders is in the Megalithic. The Polynesians were the most recent people on earth to go through a megalithic phase. Below are some Mayas illustrating the resemblance of the physical type to some Malays: the ornamentation in feathers and heavy use of Jade is also like some Pacific Islanders. The Mayans may be closely related to the high cultures of Colombia as well, and these also show a resemblance of the art style to Malays and a good resemblance of the physical type as well.

Best Wishes, Dale D.

Sunday, September 11, 2011

Not by Alexander's Fleet

The Mauryas and the Mayas 

The World (Political) in 300 BC
(Click on Picture to Enlarge Map)
  The earlier Blog posting "Pretty Ladies and Indus Script" basically made an anchoring point upon which to continue telling an ongoing story that was going on basically behind everone's back during the Classical period of recognised history. In his book Men Out of Asia, several migrations out of the Old World into the New introduced new peoples, artifacts, concepts and levels of culture. Then at the end Gladwin put his Migration Number 6 which was in many ways the most controversial of all: it introduced Civilisation, introducing traits of the highly advanced cultures of the Mid-East, South Asia and China to the West Coast of America directly by way of a sea passage full across the Pacific. Gladwin attributed this movement to being the result of Alexander the Great's Indian Ocean fleet left idling after the death of Alexander the Great. This is referred to even by supporters of Gladwin as "The Nearchus Fantasy"-Nearchus being the name of Alexander the Great's admiral. Alexander the Great died in 323 BC, after his army basically chickened out rather than directly face the military might of Mauryan India.

Above-Maurya Dynasty
Below-Mayan Influence in MesoAmerica

 The Essence of the Blog article"Pretty Ladies and the Indus Valley Script" and its sequels (including the article on the close parallel between the Mayan caste system and Ancient India) has been that the parallel between post-Harrapan India and very early Mexico is to strikingly close to be coincidental, and that presumably the colony in Mexico had originated in India, perhaps with several crossings of the Pacific between 1000 and 500 BC.

In fact it seems that the Mayas derived from the Mauryas, possibly by way of the Malays.

The oldest dates recorded in Hieroglyphics of the Mayan system are just before 300 BC and are thus presumably related to what Gladwin termed this Migration 6. But more important than that is the fact that both the Mayan and Hindu calendars started about 3100 BC and the two dates are in fact about a dozen years apart-easily close enought to have beeen the same date originally and then gotten slightly out of synch in the two systems in different hemispheres.  Of especial note also is the fact that the system of Mathematics and Astronomy is similar in the two regions and the Mayas had inexplicably gained the use of a figure representing zero.
Culture Heroes, From Men Out of Asia
Harold Gladwin assumed that the Mathematicians and Astronomers of India and the other high culture areas of the Old World had been brought to the New World to start up new civilzations there by the idling fleet of Alexander the great. To bolster this view he pointed out a good many similarities between the two areas including red pottery tripods, figurines with "Coffee-bean" eyes, and the Egyptian type of vertical loom. He does admit that the same assemblage of cultural traits does not necessarily occur together in the same area on either side of the ocean.Gladwin WAS talking about transplanting full-blown civilisations into the New World without any local predecessors. In the case of the Indians landing on the West Coasts of the Americas, there are good indications that they came after earlier Zhou Chinese.
Men Out Of Asia Migration No.6
For an overview of Gladwin's life and work, and his contributions to Anthropology and Archaeology, please see the wikipedia article:

From the Indian perspective the same Pacific crossings are presented in a rather different manner (Notably by leaving Alexander the Great out of the picture):

Transpacific Routes by Equatorial Currents known to Indians equivalent to Roman Empire Days.

Ancient Indians called the Other Hemisphere Pataladesa
Dr. Balaram Chakravarti author of The Indians And The Amerindians has written:
It will be evident from a close study of the texts of Indian Astronomy that Latin America was known to Ancient Indians, who called it Pataladesa. The Surya Siddhanta, a textbook of Astronomy, composed before 500 A.D. identifies and describes Pataldesa in very clear and definite terms in the chapter of geography (chapter xii). 
The Surya Siddhanta categorically says that the Devas and Asuras live on the earth. The Devas live in the northern hemisphere while the Asuras live in the Southern hemisphere and have a tradition of enmity against each other. It further says that the ocean which surrounds the poles of the earth has divided the planet into two great continents, viz. the continent of the Devas and the continent of the Asuras. The Brahmanas of India write the epithet Deva-Serman after their names thus describing themselves as the Devas.
When the Sun is in the northern hemisphere eg. in Aries, he appears first to the Devas, and again when the Sun is in the southern hemisphere, he appears first to the Asuras. When the Sun is on the Equator both the Devas and the Asuras find the Sun in the middle and the days and nights are equal. As the Sun proceeds to the northern hemisphere, the Devas experience summer because of the directness and intensity of the solar rays, the Asuras do not get the rays so directly then and its intensity is also less, the sun being in the northern hemisphere. Hence they experience winter during this time. This obviously indicates that Pataldesa was South America.
The Surya Siddhanta explains how the people living on opposite ends of the globe consider themselves, wrongly, as living on the upper and lower part of the globe, though there cannot really be an upper or lower part, of the globe, which moves in vaccuum.
Maya, the author of Surya Siddhanta, also mentions the four great cities situated on the opposite ends of the world, equidistant from one another. 1. Yamakotipura in Bhadrasvavarsa (Indonesia?) in the east, Lanka in Bharatvarsa (India) in the south and 3. Rome in Ketumalavarsa (Europe) in the west and Siddhapura in Kuruvarsa (America?) in the north. 
The celebrated astronomer Bhaskaracarya mentions the time difference between the important cities situated in different parts of the world in his Siddhanta Siromani (Goladhyaya) thus:
"When the sun rises at Lanka, the time as at Yakakotipura to the east of Lanka, will be midday. Below the earth at Siddhapura, it will be twilight then, and at Romakadesa in Europe, the time will be midnight."
 Accurate time difference of places around the world found in ancient Sanskrit texts

(image source: The Indians And The Amerindians - By Dr. B. Chakravarti  p. 34-110).

From such location of places round the globe and the movement towards the east, it appears that many Indian merchants used to sail frequently and some even settled down in Indonesia and Indochina, who used to relay on to Polynesia and then further on to South or Middle America, may be not a single ship and in a single effort, but after stopovers at the important ports on the other islands-chain of which seems to have existed then and some of which submerged later because of tectonic movements. It seems that some contact with the cities mentioned by Bhaskaracharya might have existed till his time.

Indic Influence is South east Asia: Chandi Sukuh Hindu Temple dedicated to Bhima of Mahabharata in Indonesia strikes a disquieting alien chord with its flat topped step pyramid and its Mayan calendar carvings n d i a    o n    p a c i f i c    w a v e s
Gordon Eckholm noted similar decorative motifs both in India and the Mayan lands and wrote of the striking resemblances in the 1960s and 1970s. His work was unusual in that the mainstream scientists did accept his diffusionist ideas and his theories were published in such places as the Scientific American.

In all of these examples from Eckholm, the Indian examples are on the left and the Mayan equivalents are on the right.

Gladwin lists several cultural traits in common between the Old World and the New World as noticed by Baron Nordenksjold, and he remarks on pages 257-258 of Men Out of Asia: "The prototypes of those culture traits which are distinctive of Mexico, Central America, and the Andean Region can be traced almost exclusively to Polynesia, Melanesia, India and the Middle East" [By which he intends to imply a backtracking of the diffusion of these traits to their source. In this case, the diffusion to Polynesia is a separate matter and although the mariners must have crossed the Pacific, there is no reason to assume that they settled Polynesia at the same time. Also the Middle-Eastern traits are also supposedly coming out of India and by way of India. Genetic studies would seem to confirm that some lines of Pacific Islanders did originate in Southern India, but they are presumably some very old lines of descent]

Traits listed by Nordenskjold include sewn-plank canoes, outriggers and double-canoes, triangular and square sails of matting, bark cloth and paper, and the equipment to mechanically beat the bark into paper, diamond-shaped paddles with a crutch handle, fishing by throwing a chemical powder on the water to stun the fish, fishing by use of trained cormorants and otters,and catching sea turtles by use of a remora (shark-sucker fish) Basically the same types of fish hooks and fish spears (and forks) were used in both areas, and the same types of helmets and torso armour, slings, short throwing and stabbing clubs, square and round shields, blowguns, signal gongs (drums) and pan pipes (syrinx). And there is also the same proceedure which is used for chewing Betel nut in the Orient, or tobacco or coca leaves in the New World: get a gourd filled with lime, take some of the lime out with a swizzle stick and put it in your mouth to kill the taste, and then chew on your appropriate stimulant until you get to like the effect.

There is more than this in detail that Gladwin includes (a dozen chapters and 120 pages of Men Out of Asia), including also details of many types of potteryand its decoration; textiles with silk cloth, Indus valley cotton, batik and tie-dyeing; and metallurgy including the making of bronze and lost-wax casting- some items of which, like the metallurgical processes, were probably introduced into the Maya lands and later lost again. Bronze objects are known from Mesoamerica in Archaeology but the later peoples were not supposed to know the process. Gladwin concludes one chapter with this scenario:

"Instead of thinking of certain assemblages of traits as having been brought to America by diffusion, try, for a moment, to think of them as being stolen at some point from Asia. Begin by supposing that an establishment in Delhi reported to the police that some bronze figures, some gold bells, a vertical loom, some tripod pottery trays, a roll of tapestry and a selection of other woven goods had been stolen.
"The theft was broadcast and picked up by the police in, say, Peru or Guatemala or Mexico.

"None of these articles had formerly been  known to exist in any of these places, but all of them are now found by the Peruvian police in a man's house in, say, Nazca.
"Do you think the authorities would be satisfied with an explanation that the man had succeeded in independantly inventing each and every item through a series of fortuitous discoveries followed up by another series of purposeful inventions?" (Men Out of Asia, 1947, pgs 332-333)

Also Cited:
Eckholm, Gordon F.,1964 “Transpacific Contacts,” Prehistoric Man in the New World, ed. by Jesse D. Jennings and Edward Norbeck. University of Chica­go Press, Chicago

Saturday, September 10, 2011

It Wasn't JUST Neanderthals

..It Wasn't Just Neanderthals: Ancient Humans Had Sex with Other Hominids
 [Yahoo News Story] By Adam Clark Estes, The Atlantic Wire – Tue, Sep 6, 2011

.........Scientists have collected evidence for years that modern humans interbred with our ridge-browed Neanderthal ancestors in Eurasia. But in Africa, where the Homo sapien species is said to have emerged, a lack of genetic evidence has left researchers scratching their heads about exactly how we came to beat out not only the Neanderthals, or Homo neanderthalensis, but other archaic species like homo erectus and homo habilus. A new paper published by Michael Hammer from the University of Arizona, however, provides evidence that homo sapiens not only interbred with Neanderthals in Eurasia, they also had sex with several species of our ancestors across the African continent. And they did it often. "We think there were probably thousands of interbreeding events," said Hammer. "It happened relatively extensively and regularly."

What we know about the history of our species has long been determined by what we can learn from our ancestors' remains. As recently as five years ago, researchers deduced that humans and Neanderthals had interbred at some point based on the shapes of skulls found in caves or buried under thousands of years worth of soil. A ground-breaking paper published last year by Swedish evolutionary biologist Svante Pääbo in Science brought genetics into the equation. Pääbo provided genetic proof that homo sapiens migrated out of Africa and into the Neanderthal-occupied Eurasian continent, where they met and mated with the more primitive men. Pääbo and his team made the discovery while comparing samples of Neanderthal DNA with that of modern human DNA.

In a recent profile on Pääbo, The New Yorker's Elizabeth Kolbert describes what's become known as the "leaky replacement" hypothesis: “Before modern humans "replaced" the Neanderthals, they had sex with them. The liaisons produced children, who helped to people Europe, Asia, and the New World. The leaky-replacement hypothesis--assuming for the moment that it is correct--provides further evidence of the closeness of Neanderthals to modern humans. Not only did the two interbreed; the resulting hybrid offspring were functional enough to be integrated into human society. Some of these hybrids survived to have kids of their own, who, in turn, had kids, and so on to the present day. Even now, at least thirty thousand years after the fact, the signal is discernible: all non-Africans, from the New Guineans to the French to the Han Chinese, carry somewhere between one and four per cent Neanderthal DNA.

 Hammer says that the interbreeding didn't stop with Neanderthals, however, but because of environmental conditions, we haven't been able to do the same genetic research with our African ancestors. "We don't have fossil DNA from Africa to compare with ours," Hammer explains. "Neanderthals lived in colder climates, but the climate in more tropical areas make it very tough for DNA to survive that long, so recovering usable samples from fossil specimens is extremely difficult if not impossible." Lacking actual DNA, Hammer and his team did what any modern scientist would do: they wrote a computer program. Using modern human DNA, Hammer says, they were able to "simulate history" and sort of reverse-engineer human DNA. In doing so, they found evidence that Homo sapiens not only had sex with Neanderthals, they also interbred with Homo erectus, the "upright walking man," Homo hobilis, the "tool-using man," and possibly others. Hammer says that despite earlier skepticism about interbreeding between human species and despite the belief that humans were an exception to certain laws of evolution, our DNA shows otherwise.

 One big question remains: Why did modern man survive as the archaic species died off? Kolbert talked with Pääbo at length about this topic, and while we still don't know the answer, genetic research like Hammer's that tracks the migration of homo sapiens around the globe provides some clues. In fact, it seems like what makes modern man different has a lot to do with traveling to new places and conquering them. Kolbert writes:

 “From the archeological record, it's inferred that Neanderthals evolved in Europe or western Asia and spread out from there, stopping when they reached water or some other significant obstacle. (During the ice ages, sea levels were a lot lower than they are now, so there was no English Channel to cross.) This is one of the most basic ways modern humans differ from Neanderthals and, in Pääbo's view, also one of the most intriguing. By about forty-five thousand years ago, modern humans had already reached Australia, a journey that, even mid-ice age, meant crossing open water. Archaic humans like Homo erectus "spread like many other mammals in the Old World," Pääbo told me. "They never came to Madagascar, never to Australia. Neither did Neanderthals. It's only fully modern humans who start this thing of venturing out on the ocean where you don't see land. Part of that is technology, of course; you have to have ships to do it. But there is also, I like to think or say, some madness there. You know? How many people must have sailed out and vanished on the Pacific before you found Easter Island? I mean, it’s ridiculous. And why do you do that? Is it for the glory? For immortality? For curiosity? And now we go to Mars. We never stop." ..

Thursday, September 8, 2011

Why Plato MEANT 8000 Years When He SAID 8000 (Solar) Years

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Great Year is an archaic cosmological conception, found in different cultures, which acquired new interpretations with the development of astronomical knowledge[1] In the Western tradition Plato has been the main source for the idea, so it was also frequently called 'Platonic year' (Latin: annus platonicus). Nearly two centuries after his time Hipparchus established the period of equinox precession, a finding which took the same name and provided a value for it. Currently one precession cycle is estimated to be about 25,765 years. The Babylonian, Indian or astrological sources offer different views about the great year and its length. Of recently coining is the "cosmic" or "galactic year", the period in which the solar system moves around the center of our galaxy

Confusion of precession and Platonic year
The Great Year, based on the cycle of precession, is often called Platonic year based on a confusion with a concept defined by the philosopher Plato, who in his Timaeus defined the "perfect year" as the return of the celestial bodies (planets) and the fixed stars (circle of the Same) to their original positions:

“ And so people are all but ignorant of the fact that time really is the wanderings of these bodies, bewilderingly numerous as they are and astonishingly variegated. It is none the less possible, however, to discern that the perfect number of time brings to completion the perfect year at that moment when the relative speeds of all eight periods have been completed together and, measured by the circle of the Same that moves uniformly, have achieved their consummation."[2] ”

The Platonic year, based on the revolution of the planets and estimated by Macrobius as lasting 15,000 solar years, has no connection to the "precessional period of 36,000 years",[3] caused by the slow gyration of the Earth's axis and discovered by the Greek astronomor Hipparchus:

“ Some time around the middle of the second century BC, the astronomer Hipparchus discovered that the fixed stars as a whole gradually shifted their position in relation to the annually determined locations of the Sun at the equinoxes and solstices... Otto Neugebauer argued that Hipparchus in fact believed that this [36,000 years] was the maximum figure and that he also computed the true rate of one complete precession cycle at just under 26,000 years...[4] ”

The confusion originates with the astronomer Ptolemy, who "adopted the larger, erroneous, figure, with the result that henceforth the two versions of the Great Year - the Platonic Great Year, defined by the planets, and the precessional, defined by the stars - were to be increasingly confused."[4]

"Some people called it the Yuga cycle, others called it the Grand cycle and others the Perfect Year...But the most common name found in use from ancient Europe to ancient China, was simply the Great Year".[5]

Astronomical value of the precession cycle
The empirical data for the precession of the equinox do not warrant the extrapolation to a full cycle and from the antiquity to Modern times many scholars doubted its existeance. Astronomical phenomena often exhibit a movement within a limited range and it was surmised the the displacement of the vernal point is of this type. Known as the theory of trepidation the idea is traced back to Theon of Alexandria (4th.c) who credits it to older astrologers. In the middle ages it was favored by Arabian astronomers and Copernic also endorsed it. As the name 'trepidation' suggests it was not considered to be a 'year' which is most commonly thought as circular. The duration of the precession cycle, the time it takes for the equinox to precess 360 degrees relative to the fixed stars, is often given as 25,920 or 26,000 years. In reality the exact duration cannot be given, as the rate of precession is changing over time. This speed is currently 243.8 microradians (50.3 arcseconds) per year which would give 25,765 years for one cycle to complete. The precessional speed is slightly increasing each year, and therefore the cycle period is decreasing. Numerical simulations of the solar system over a period of millions of years give a period of 257 centuries.[6] but no one is certain of the exact precession rate over long periods of time.
Near the turn of the 20th century astronomer Simon Newcomb invented a "constant" to account for the increasing annual precession rate. Over the last 100 years this constant has been found to have underestimated the actual acceleration in the rate.[citation needed]

Early cultures and mythology
The Greeks broke the Great Year into four ages known as the Golden, Silver, Bronze, and Iron Ages,which add to one half of a precessional cycle[Or about one Platonic Great Year]. The Indian Great Year cycle Yugas is also broken into four periods; the Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali yugas, and also add to one half a precessional cycle, as calculated by the Indian sage Sri Yukteswar Giri. In his book, The Holy Science, first published in 1894 as Kaivalya Darsanam, Yukteswar describes the Great Year as a period of time wherein the earth goes through a "complete change, both externally in the material world, and internally in the intellectual or electric world" with four rising ages and four descending ages, equal in length to one complete precession of the equinox. Other Indian scholars put the length at millions of years, a period of time unrelated to the precession cycle.
According to Giorgio de Santillana, the late Professor of the History and Philosophy of Science at M.I.T and Hertha von Dechend, in their book Hamlet's Mill, published in 1969 by Gambit, there are over 200 myths or folk stories from over thirty ancient cultures that refer to a Great Year tied to the movement of the equinox or the motion of the heavens.

Significance in astrology
Most astrologers use a precession rate rounded to 50 arc seconds per year to derive a Great Year period of 25,920 years, the period required for the equinox to move through all twelve of the classic zodiacal signs. Some, such as Boris Cristoff prefer to round the age of one sign of the zodiac to 2100 years, which equates to a Great Year duration of 25,200 years.

1.^ ."The difficulty with the term "great year" lies in its ambiguity. Almost any period can be found sometime or somewhere honored with this name." - noted an eminent specialist: Neugebauer O., (1975)A History of Ancient mathematical astronomy, Birkhäuser, p.618
2.^ Plato, Timaeus 39d, in John M. Cooper (ed.), "Plato: Complete Works" (Hackett Publishing Company, 1997), p. 1243
3.^ William Harris Stahl, "Macrobius: Commentary on the Dream of Scipio" (Columbia University Press, 1952), p. 21
4.^ a b Nicholas Campion, "The Great Year: Astrology, Millenarianism and History in the Western Tradition" (Arkana/Penguin Books, 1994), p. 246–247.
5.^ Walter Cruttenden, "Lost Star of Myth and Time" (St. Lynn's Press, 2006), p.xix–xx. 6.^ A.L. Berger; Obliquity & precession for the last 5 million years; Astronomy & astrophysics 51 (1976), 127

See also
Astrological age, Axial precession (astronomy), Precession, Precession: Astronomy, Yuga

The Platonic version of the Great Year is taken to be identical to the conception of Aristotle, who stated that the wnter of the Great Year was a Cataclysmos or Flood and that the summer of the Great Year was an Ekpyrosis or world-destroyed-in-Flames: naturally these two events were supposed to have taken some thousands of years in between, in fact one-half of the Great Year. Macrobius stated the Platonic period to have been 15000 years and half of that would be 7,500 years: we can surmise by the repeated statements of a period of 8000 years in the Atlantis dialogues that he rounded that one-half cycle up and he considered the cycle to have been 16000 years in all. I do not believe Aristotle gave an estimation for the Great Year which survives. However the date is quite readily supported by both Greek and Indian estimates for the time since the Golden Age, which was estimated to have begun about 12000 BC and ended by "9000 years ago" in the Platonic reckoning.[8000+1000 years roughly before Plato for Phaethon]
Plato is definitely saying that the Greatest Deluge of All was the Cataclysmos of the last Great Year and the Phaethon Event is the Ekpyrosis following it at about 8000 years later: it is also implicit that Plato considered the Flood of Deucalion to have occured after the Phaethon event and probably immediately following it, as it is given in some versions of the Myth.

Wednesday, September 7, 2011

Karl Hepke and "Two Times Atlantis"

I really had not thought of trying to harmonise the theories of Old Atlantis and then the Last Atlanteans or Peoples of the Sea until I came upon the TOLOS Website of Karl Juergen Hepke. Hepke's site is multilingual although parts of it are only available in German so far. Here is his Link for the Explanation of "Two Times Atlantis"
And here is the site index (German and English versions of the same pages are listed together):

Hepke's basic thesis is that essentially BOTH Otto Muck and Jurgen Spanuth are correct: that there was an original Pleistocene-Island Atlantis and after its sinking the surviving cultures of the remaining Ten Kingdoms of Atlantis, of which Megalithic Europe was the most notable. Hepke also favours the preeminence of Tartessos (Tharsus) as the secondary Atlantis: but since the same brotherhood of the Ten Kings (The Tuatha) existed throughout the aream, the North Sea Atlantis and the North African Atlantis were also just as much "Atlantises" (Otto Muck also made this point: most of the secondary identifications for Plato's Atlantis all exist in a common Atlantean culture zone and they are all related as descendants of the original Atlantis.)

The legendary old Atlantis in the Bermuda Triangle
It is nowadays regarded as scientifically proved, that nearly 10 000 - 12 000 years ago, or following a date of the old Maya-calendar about 9500 B.C. a devastating event happened on earth, which had far reaching consequences for life of that time and caused considerable regrouping of land and sea areas. So in Siberian ice were found mammouths, the flesh of which was so quickly frozen that it was, thousands of years after freezing , still edible. In hippopotamusses [rhinoceroses-DD] and other for Siberia not typical animals undigested food was found, which consisted of plants which are no more existent in Siberia. In northern Siberia, in Alaska and in North-Canada were found on natural elevations so much bones of suddenly died animals that the peak of these elevations was nearly totally made of these bones. [Ivan Sanderson speaks of this deposit as "Muck"-a layer of mixed mud, water ice, and undecayed animal flesh, unsorted as to the component parts, and containing remains of animals ranging from mere fragements , dismembered limbs and feet with adhering flesh on them, disarticulated bones and tusks up to nearly entire preserved corpses of animals of any size, dozens of species all mixed up together, AND with layers of volcanic ash running through the deposit as well. See "Riddle of the Frozen Mammoths"]

But also from other parts of the earth there are proofs of extermination of entire herds of animals which were found far away from their native country. So , for example, an gigantic graveyard of elephants was found in the Columbian Andes and an enormous field of dead sea-elephants [Walruses and sealions] in front of the coast of Georgia. All this points out to the fact, that large areas of the earth were struck by a sudden event. Change of climate together with gigantic floods at wide ranges of the land. This change of climate, which altered a time of rising warming in its opposite, a sudden cooling with far reaching consequences for flora and fauna, is called by science Dryas or Time of Tundras and is dated between 9000 and 8000 B.C.[Emphasis added by DD] It lasted nearly one thousand of years until gaining warming returned.

To the level of science of today there is only one theory that explains all these details of an world-wide catastrophe. It says, that an enormous meteorite or asteroid had struck the earth. It had enough energy to disturb the spin of earth. The earth began to stagger and the oceans left their natural bed cause of the mass-forces and flow over the lower situated countries in a gigantic wave, sweeping away all animal or human life and dumping it at places where the current stopped. In other areas, in which the water rose more slowly, because of greater distance to the sea, the animals could fly to hills, where the rising water drunk them at last.

In the memory of all people of the earth this event lives as story of "The Flood", in which only survived who went into a ship or chest like Noah in the Bible or clung to a swimming beam and was washed ashore at a protruding mountain. In addition to the effect of the asteroid´s impact is today assumed, that earth had accumulated a considerable instability caused by the gigantic masses of ice, which had piled on the mountains of northern Europe for several kilometers. This instability was activated by the impact and both caused the tilt of the earth´s axis. By measuring of the magnetism of rocks was detected that the possible result of both was a moving of the North Pole from the south point of Greenland 3500 Km to the North, seen from the Atlantic. The Pole got into the Northern Ice Sea and the new beginning development of ice was now in the sea. Quite the contrary happened at the South Pole. Here moved the development of ice to the, until than nearly free of ice being, land of Antarctic.

Because the earth is on account of its iron bearing core a permanent magnet, staid the magnetic North and South Pole at its old place. This old place is situated on the Polar Circle and it is therefore possible, that before the described moving of the poles the earth´s axis was vertical to the orbit of the earth round the sun. That means , that there were no seasons on earth at that time. The sun shined more or less, corresponding to the degree of latitude. Because the poles got nearly no sunshine, it was possible, that there grew a gigantic mass of ice. Nevertheless the position of the earth´s axis vertical to its orbit can be seen as normal position from physical point of view, because nearly all physical forces are optimal in balance.

The assumption, that earth´s axis was vertical in time of the old cultures of Atlantis I, the old iranian {Middle-Eastern] culture and the old cultures of the East, which are not researched in that point until now, makes clear, why the calendars of these old nations, as the old Celts, the Egyptians and the Sumerians, counted with the moon. Because of the missing seasons the run of earth round the sun was without interest.

If you liked it more warm you went to the south, if you liked it more cool, you took the way to North. There were less thunderstorms and natural catastrophes and also less earthquakes. That this time left in human mind the idea of a "golden age" or an "paradise" is, facing these features, only natural. Today the earth is in an not equable position. The forces of sun and moon try to put it back in the old stable position and exert pressure on the swimming floes of the continents. This produces again and again earthquakes at the edges of these floes. The not equable position of the earth is also visible in the still resting swaying of the earth´s axis called "praecession".

Although you could suppose, that the postponement of the poles, at the one side into the water and on the other side to the land of the Antarctic were nearly balancing each other, the level of the sea rose in the following time which was accompanied by a warming time and the end of a glacial epoch. The increase of the sea lies between 100 and 180 m because it was superimposed at several places by a rise of land.

A country which was struck extremely hard by the catastrophe was South and North America. To the knowledge of today it is supposed that the impact of the asteroid happened in the area which is today called the "Bermuda-Triangle". This region is known as dangerous because there excessive many ships and aeroplanes get lost by unknown forces of nature. Because America is not far away and because there are no big mountains at the atlantic-side , which could break the waves of the ocean, America was nearly totally flooded. The result was, that in the lower land no life survived and nearly the same is valid for the countries and enormous islands in front of the America of that time, where many researchers suppose the old Atlantis I. These regions are flooded today by the sea with varying depth and only the peaks of some mountains rise up out of the water forming the islands of today and serve as an aid to orientation.

The center of this former country are the gigantic banks of Bahama with the islands of Andros, Exuma and Eleuthera. Western of them is the "Tongue of Ocean", a ditch of depths round 8000 m and at its southern part there are two oval holes of several kilometre diameter and unknown depth where the impact holes of the asteroid are supposed. On this plate of Bahama were found astonishing things. It was before the flooding an expanded country with bays and inland waters and consisted of one ore some large islands. Since 1968 until now here were made surprising discoveries which are pointing to the fact, that this country has carried a signifying and varying culture before its destruction by the asteroid and following flooding.

Near Bimini were found under water constructions which you could take for roads, terraces, docks, and collapsed walls. In the utilization of gigantic stones they are remembering the time before the Inkas in Peru or the zyclopean constructions of Mykene, Kanaan or the megalithic tombs of western Europe.The most famous discovery is the Biminiwall or Biminiroad in 1968, an extended plaster of right- and polygonal formed stones of different size and strength. Many of the stones are right-formed or perfect cubic, what in nature does not occur in repetition. The bigger stones of three or four-and-a-half meter length form straight going avenues with two parallel roads. It is interrupted by two widenings of big flat stones the ends of which are positioned on upright set stones. This method of building is comparable to that used at west-european dolmen. The southeastern end of this road construction ends in a waved bend which surfaces again at an other place and gives the impression, that it had former surrounded whole Bimini. Three short dams, built of exactly formed big stones are of same width and are ending in cornerstones. Because all these constructions are under water, it is difficult to make excavations like on dry ground. Only experienced divers could identify ,that the bulky pillars which supported some of the stones could not be in that position by natural means and that at least these parts of the roads were built artificially. Additionally were found in the sea area of the Bahama-embankment as on the ground of the sea in the neighbourhood of Cuba, Haiti and Santo Domingo buildings as formed by human hand. Some of these buildings look like pyramids,terraces of temples or enormous buildings with domes. Northern of Puerto Rico were found the steps of stairs hewed into the rock, which lead to the former edge of the sea before 12 000 years. Divers, who found the anchor of an spanish galleon scratched the sea ground during its examination and detected, that it was lying on the mosaic floor of an terrace which was flooded before thousands of years by the sea.

All this shows really , that in this area the sea covers the remains of a great culture, which was nearly totally destroyed by the impact of the asteroid. Nearly, because the megalithic constructions at the west-european coast of the Atlantic show, that there were survivors of this culture, which were able to reconstruct some of the achievements of it and make a new beginning. The tecnical talents which are told of this high culture in the Indian Mahabharata, that they were able to construct aeroplanes and things like atom-bombs, were lost in the catastrophe and the thousands of years lasting process of relaxation. Why of all people the far away living Indians (D) saved the story of these sunken countries and its high culture and civilization until today is shown in other chapters of TOLOS.

Two times "Atlantis"
by Karl Juergen Hepke *

Platon gives in his report about "Atlantis" two unambiguous geographic details for the location. At first: Atlantis was situated behind the pillars of Herakles (hyper ten heraklei nyssai). The greek word "hyper" can mean as well: "on the other side of",as "above",as "behind" and several other, which is here not interesting or applicable. If you take it in the sense of "behind" or "above" and look at it in the view of the seafaring at that time -which was the only possibility to get from Egypt to Atlantis- it was situated at the coast of Iberia or Africa after passing the Street of Gibraltar. For seafaring at that time happened almost exclusively near to the next coast. Crossing the open sea, which was usually called "ocean" ,was only practised if it was sure and proved by experience that at the other side of the "ocean" was situated a country, which you could reach in a couple of days. But behind the Strait of Gibraltar there was no such country in the days of Platon until now.

The second unambiguous information in the report is, that the country that follows from Atlantis to the South, was the country of Gadeiros. There is no doubt at all, that Gadeiros is the later Gades, nowadays Cadiz. With that, the only possible position of the "Atlantis" described by Platon is situated in South-Iberia northern of the hilly country of Gadeiros. Africa can be excluded and over that all remaining places in the world that could be possible following the remaining information given by Platon. That is no new fact and there were and are several Atlantis-researchers seeing Atlantis for this reason in Andalusia, which is called in Arabian "andaluz". A name which is linguistic not far away from the Egyptian "Atlantis". But until now all these arguments are not accepted as sufficient. Therefore the German Atlantis-researcher Adolf Schulten felt obliged to dig in the manner of Schliemann at several places in the delta of the Guadalquivir in the beginning of the twentieth century. He offered up his whole property for that and however stayed without success. Finding the probably right place was reserved to the local archaeology of the little town named "El Puerto de Santa Maria" between Cadiz and Jeres de la Frontera. Since 1978 there was digging up on the hill of "Dama Blanca" which is positioned nearly 10 Km from the sea in front of a mountain.

From this mountain you can see clearly both named towns, the surrounding plain, the sea and the river Guadalete which is flowing into it. It is obvious that this was, strategically seen, a very convenient place for the foundation of a town. You must ask yourself, why Schulten had not seen the overwhelming fitness of this position. Due to the results of the digging up until now, probably here was found the tell of the famous town "Tartessos" from the time between 1000 and 300 B.C., which was destroyed finally by the Romans. It seems to be possible , that you can find under, or in the neighbourhood of it, the rests of the town of "Tharsis" from the time of 1600 until 1250 B.C., which was the ancestor of Tartessos and described by Platon under the name of "Atlantis". It was destroyed by a natural desaster. Until 1998 there were found six layers (stratum) of settlement with clear pointing out to trade relations to the Greek thalassocraties. The "Empire of Tartessos" and the preceding "Empire of Atlantis" of the Bronze Age comprised to todays stand of knowledge also other old towns in Andalusia as Huelva, Niebla, Carmona and Carambolo, in which were made considerable discoveries from the Bronze Age.

Beside this, discoveries of old gold and copper mines are made in the recent time in the mountains north of the Andalusian plain. These mountains are nowadays called "Sierra Morena" and were described by Platon as the mountain range that protected the plain of Atlantis from the cold wind of the north. The plains of Andalusia are until now passed by canals corresponding to Platons description. Other features of the Platon description as two harvests a year, damp wind of the Atlantic, rests of elephants, bull- and horse breeding , megalithic tombs, the incident of earthquakes, ideal living conditions for a great number of people, growing of all imaginable sort of plants and trees are also fulfilled nowadays in Andalusia. If you look at the "islands positioned behind" of France, England, Ireland and the "opposite situated continent" of the Netherlands, Germany and Denmark, which extends as far as Russia, is this country truely bigger than "Lybia and Asia put together" as Platon tells.

The mystery of Platon´s "Atlantis" seems therefore solved.

But this is only effective for the "Atlantis" of the Bronze Age, described by Platon. Besides that, there is the "Atlantis" which occurs in the myths of many nations of the world under different names and sunk in a terrible catastrophe which carried off a large part of mankind.

This catastrophe is known in the Christian world under the name of "The Flood". Following the knowledge of recent science, and there is nearly no discussion between all Atlantis researchers, it happened nearly 9500 B.C., that is 9000 years before the visit of Solon in Egypt, which was the basis of Platon´s Atlantis report. Platon also tells this in his report. And with that begins the muddle and for a lot of people the chaos, that makes the report of Platon incredible. Because 9500 B.C. there was no Bronze Age on earth. There were no settlements in Greece and there was no town of Athens, which could resist the penetrating Atlantians, as Platon tells.

For the solution of this puzzle there is only one possibility. The 9000 years, which told the Egyptian priest to the "ignorant Greeks", were moon-years and not sun-years. In old times it was usual in Egypt, to count the years to the phases of the moon. An "Egypt-year" of that time corresponds nearly to a month of our calendar and went from full-moon to full-moon. For the seasons are not very distinct in Egypt this was much better to recognize than the position of the sun, which does not change the climate very much. This calculation to "moons" was usual in all old cultures, as in Mesopotamia and also in the old calendar of the Celts.(D) The 9000 moon years must therefore be shared by 12,34, for the moon goes round the earth 12,34 times in a sun-year. Than you get 729 years. Added up to the time of 500 B.C., when Solon was in Egypt, you come to 1229 B.C. Following todays knowledge, 1250 B.C. happened the natural disaster in which Platons Atlantis sunk down and 1190 B.C. was the first battle between Egypt and the sea-peoples. The natural disaster of 1250 B.C. caused a nearly 600 years lasting worsening of the climate , which was the cause of the "migration of the sea-people" as the Egyptians called it. The consequence of this migration was, that the whole Near East as far as Egypt and India was historically unambiguous provable rolled up by the penetrating "Atlantian" people. They passed into history as "Sea-people" , "Aramaeas", "Arias" naming only some very good known.

But what happened to the mythical "Atlantis" of the Mayas and other nations before 11500 sun-years at 9500 B.C. The "Atlantis" of the Flood and where was positioned this "Atlantis" of many researchers. It is truely proved and nearly undeniable, that the catastrophe of the Flood happened on the whole earth, for it is known in the myths of all old nations. As cause of the Flood you can therefore eliminate local events like catastrophic explosions of volcanos. What is only possible is a cosmic event like the impact of a big asteroid or comet on earth. Because nobody has found a big crater of this time on dry ground the impact must have happened in the sea. The supposed impact craters are two gigantic holes in the sea ground south of the Bahamas in the so-called "Bermuda-triangle" in the western Atlantic. This at least because America was struck especially hard by this catastrophe.

Nearly all human and animal life and all culture disappeared in this area. America was thrown back in its cultural development by this catastrophe nearly 10000 years. It is hold for proved that almost the whole lowland and low mountain ranges were flooded by a gigantic wave. Also it is maintained by some researchers that some coastal areas in the west of America were lifted 3000 m in this catastrophe.
[Certainly parts of Canada were lifted up as much as 3000 m after the Ice Age ended and from Isostatic Rebound: the same thing happened in parts of Northern Europe as well.-DD]

The gigantic wave arrived also in Europe, Asia and Africa. Thanks of the bigger extension of the land and stronger mountain ranges of the continents, the effect was not so complete here. On protect situated mountains men and animals were spared out by the water and survived in climatic convenient situated areas also in catastrophic thunderstorms and cold spells, which followed the catastrophe and went on for nearly 1000 years. In the weather statistic of earth this time is known as Dryas or Time of Tundras. Following the today predominantly accepted theory, the enormous impact of the asteroid caused some rolling of the earth spin with following postponement of the poles of 3200 Km to the pole position of today. The prior position of the North Pole was probably the southern point of Greenland, where is positioned today only the magnetic North Pole. This could mean that earth´s axis was vertical to the earth´s orbit round the sun before this postponement of the poles. This position is physically seen the normal position and more stable than todays inclination of 23 degrees.(D)

This would mean, that before the postponement of the poles, there were no seasons on earth. Because of that, the climate was much more quiet and consistent. The surface of the water on earth and especially in the Atlantic was 150 m lower than today and there existed a large number of big islands and large areas round the coasts of today. The Atlantic was a calm bathing pool like today some regions of the Pacific and it was possible to get from island to island with simple boats. That means, the earth was in that time really the paradise which exists in the myths of many nations. In many regions of the world there was a big lowland like "Atlantis" in front of the continents and islands. These lowlands sunk in the rising of the water surface of nearly 180 m after the catastrophe. So it is explained, that in nearly all regions of the world there are Atlantis-legends and discoveries of sunken great cultures. Also the before told calendar to "moons" of the old nations would find with this its natural explanation and make clear why, for example, the old Celts had a calendar period of five years (D) and not of one. Also explained is the amazing meaning of the observation of sun, moon and stars, the changing of the length of night and day and their effect on the nature by men living about 5000 B.C. All this was new for them and they tried to explain these difficult occurrences and put it in an order. We, men of today, are adapted to this situation and we have developed furnishings which enable us to live sufficient comfortable under these conditions. Men living at 5000 B.C. began with that development and probably still hoped, that the conditions of their lost paradise came back. This hope is no more existent in todays mankind and we are trying to create our little paradise of ourselves.

* Karl Juergen Hepke is graduate engineer and since 1980 working at the research of early history . He is author of books and editor of the Internet-sites and

[Hepke repeats Spanuth's rationale for reading the date of Atlantis' downfall as equalling the Phaethon event. I disagree because for me the date is an astronomical one referring to the Precession of the equinoxes and hence it really is intended to refer to 9000 solar calendar years. Furthermore, Hepke gives good reason for using Muck's date for the event. While I fully endorse BOTH events and the dates supported for either one, the date for Phaethon is not the same date as the date given for the destruction of Atlantis as given by the Egyptian priest: There are two different kinds of catastrophes being described and distinguished from one another and the Phaethon event is categorically differentiated from the Destruction of Atlantis in the Atlantis dialogues of Plato. There is no good reason to equate the two and certainly no textual justification for doing so.]

-Best Wishes, Dale D.

Tuesday, September 6, 2011

Antediluvian Nephilim Giants of Atlantis

I found a website that had the same understanding of the matter as I did and put the argument so succinctly that I felt I should nominate them a guest blogger to explain it in their own words:

 Friday, November 6, 2009
 Cro Magnon, Cave Man and Identity of the Nephalim Giants in Genesis, the Old Testament

I won't trouble anyone with all the false explanations from 1) Fee Fi Fo Fum 30 ft tall mythological "Giants," to 2) Fallen Angels / Demons, to ... who knows what other explanations, I'll stick with the reasonable Biblical explanation. Here's the famous chart of Science' Evolution of Man, showing the line that lead up to Cro-Magnon, and Cro-Magnon was replaced by "Modern Man" who the father of Agriculture (tilling the ground) and the first settlements.

The major difference between Cro Magnon man (40,000-10,000 years ago) is that Cro Magnon did not farm. He was the prehistoric "cave man," nomadic, hunter/gatherers. Agriculture which enabled man to create settlements, began in Mesopotamia, around 10,000 years ago, the same is described in Genesis 2:5: "...and there was not a man to till the ground.") with the creation of Adam, Agriculture began to flourish and spread throughout the ancient world, and strong emphasis is on how not a man existed, to "till the ground".

How that became "no man existed," was through fundamentalists' denial of Paleontology and the fossil record of human evolution. How ironic, that instead of "denying the Bible," scientists were merely doing the will of God, to explain the mystery of Genesis.

 "Tilling the ground," is emphasized and re-emphasized. Many Atheists raised the question, "Where did Mrs. Cain come from?" after Cain fled following the murder of his brother. Cro-Magnon had a heavy population throughout parts of Europe and the ancient near east. That is where "Mrs Cain" came from. It is written, (Genesis 4:11) that God greviously cursed Cain, who was a tiller of the ground, "...And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth." How interesting that Cain expressed fear about every man who found him would want to kill him? How odd, if the only man living at the time, aside of his dead brother, were his father Adam. Obviously, it is implied that other men were living at the time, including cro magnon women, from whom Cain took a wife.

"And there were giants in those days..." Many of these ancient people stood above 6 ft. tall on average. The video documentary mentions Ancient Chinese scrolls and cave paintings of figures of "great height" that lend credence to the accounts

 Who the "Sons of God" are, "And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." ~ Genesis 3:22

 Please take note that God mentions nothing of "fallen angels," "demons," or otherwise. The wicked ones in discussion who plundered the "daughters of men," were man... men... modern man, Adam, a son of God, hand-crafted from the earth, by God himself.

Adam was the "fallen one," if you please, and "...they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Genesis 6:4 There were giants [Nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the 1) sons of God came in unto the 2) daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. The verse is speaking of none other than the ancient Cro-Magnon man, which had existed from approximately 40,000-10,000 years ago, and was replaced by modern man.

A famous museum bust of cro-magnon man [Ends quotation from genesis-science blog-DD]

There is an author, Anthony Roberts, who writes extensively of Atlantean Tradition in Britain, that being basically the Megalithic culture and its remnants, and of the legends of Giants which he feels connect up to both the traditions of Atlantis and to traditions of Megalithic Culture.

 Atlantean Traditions in Ancient Britain, Zodiac House, 1971.

 A serious study of the Atlantean myth, investigating into the roots of British mythology and history. First edition published in by Zodiac House in 1971, Part One: Visions Of Albion; Part Two: Atlantean Ireland. Part 3. Magical Heritage In Wales.

Atlantean Traditions in Ancient Britain is an investigation into the roots of British mythology and history using the myth of Atlantis. Anthony Roberts considers the mysterious aspects of the Bristish Mythos investigating flood memories, giant lore, fairy tales, Druids and ancient magic. He contrasts his findings with studies of the physical evidence that remains: earthworks, leys, standing stones, trackways, stone circles, drowned lands and the very nature of the landscape itself. Some of the earliest traditions of England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales are unfolded and always with the shadow of Atlantis looming above them. The book summarizes many of the discoveries of contemporary Atlantean researchers and speculative archaeologists as they pertain to the British Isles. The afterword broadens its scope with an analysis of the more world-wide evidences to support the Atlantean thesis. Published as a revised edition by Rider, 1977

 Sowers of Thunder: Giants in Myth and History, Rider, 1978.
With Foreword by Paul Devereux.

 Discusses British Giant Traditions: Gogmagog, Earth Giants, Cornish Giants and other Esotericisms. Also looks at real giants, Hoebiger and the Giants and giant legends in South America.

 From the front flap – “Among the wealth of fantastic beings, the idea of giants recurs again and again throughout time and in all places. With its wealth of detail Sowers of Thunder offers an investigation of these creatures taking examples not only from Britain but also from North and South America. Beginning with the premise that giants were once a reality – and possibly the original habitants of the British Isles – Anthony Roberts has written a fascinating book that examines the references, both real and mythological, and the archaeological evidence which tends to support this theory. This is a thought provoking portrait of the possible original inhabitants of ancient Albion.” This is a thorough investigation, using both mythological and archaeological evidence into the existence of giants, which Roberts suggests were the original occupants of Albion. Roberts interprets Giant legends as records of geomantic practices; the existence of physical giants in antiquity as the magical powers used by the ancients in shaping of the landscape by metaphysical energies. Giant-killing at Gorran is seen as the sacrifice of a magical ruler, and there are stories of sacrifice by giants at Trencrom Hill, near which the stones are used for playing bowls, and the legend of Saint Michaels Mount as recording the construction of that monument; the story distinguishes between white granite, which has active energies, and greenstone, which does not. A giant skeleton was found on the Mount in the fourteenth century. Saint Agnes’ killing of a giant at Chapel Porth is seen as a record both of ritual sacrifice and of the Christian suppression of paganism. The giant’s stride between St.Agnes Beacon and Carn Brea is on a ley: the giants who assembled on the beacon hill at Carn Brea are seen as a memory of the megalith builders. Another ley is recorded in a hammer-throwing legend at Trencrom Hill and Saint Michaels Mount. . It is suggested that the burial found at Glastonbury in 1190 was not King Arthur but an ancient giant.
Selections from Sowers of Thunder went onto to appear s articles in various Earth Mysteries magazines including The Ley Hunter and Meyn Mamvro.

 Roberts holds that the Atlantean CroMagnons included very large individuals but of normal, undeformed apperarance. CroMagnons could normally range above six feet tall and even seven feet tall (Males), like their descendants the Canary Islanders: Roberts allows that some of them could regularly surpass eight to ten feet tall.Spence would agree that Atlantean CroMagnons were the reason for the British traditions of Giants, and even allow that "Og" was part of the name they were commonly known by, but Spence does not specify so great a height for them. The following summary contains some of Robert's ideas, and some additions to the basic theory. I shall needs add a few points of clarification because of some common errors that have also been included.

 To quote Benjamin Rea, “yes, Atlantis did once exist”; although orthodox scholars have consistently sneered at all references to Atlantis. The story of Atlantis is recorded in the writings of the Greek classic Plato. Plato got his information about Atlantis from Solon’s writings, who lived a century earlier, who got the story of Atlantis from archives in Egypt he read during a visit there. The Egyptians kept meticulous historical records, while the Greeks did not keep a written record of their own history. The story of Atlantis aroused extraordinary interest in Greece, and was “checked-out”, so to speak, by Crantor, the first commentator of Plato’s works, who went to Egypt around 300BC to verify Solon’s sources. Plato wrote that Atlantis was a large island or continent now submerged beneath the Atlantic Ocean except its mountain-tops which are today identified by able scholars as the Azore Islands. The Azores are nine small islands about 1000 miles west of Portugal in the Atlantic. Plato, whose record of Atlantis we have, says clearly that Atlantis was situated outside the “Pillars of Hercules”, that is, the “Straits of Gibraltar“, opposite the mouth of the Mediterranean Sea in the Atlantic Ocean, and by his description there can be little doubt that the Azores Islands are indeed the mountain-peaks of the “lost continent” of Atlantis. Atlantis, according to Plato, possessed a high civilization, which was suddenly destroyed by an horrific natural cataclysm and sank beneath the sea.
 The inhabitants of Atlantis were the Colossi, so-called by the Greeks because they were said to have been giants, the “giants” mentioned in the mythologies of nearly every ancient race, who settled in the islands and coasts of the Atlantic Ocean at the time of the “great migrations” in the Middle Stone Age [Mesolithic]when ancient peoples settled in their historic habitats. The Colossi appear in Greek Mythology as the rebellious “Titans”, who, all except one tribe migrated from North-West Africa [Mauretania] and settled outside the “Pillars of Hercules” in the islands and coasts of the “western ocean” under the leadership of Atlas [formerly King of Mauretania] and his brothers, namely, Gadir (Gaderius) or Eumelus (Eumolus), Ampher[es] (Amphisus), Evaemon (Eudemon), Mneseus, Autochthon, Elasippus, Mestor, Diaprepes, and Azaes, all of whom were early patriarchs, each over one of the ten tribes of the Colossi, and all founded kingdoms and became kings. Atlas settled in the isle or island-continent of Atlantis while his brothers migrated onto other islands and coasts of the Atlantic. Gadir settled Spain; Ampher settled Britain; Evaemon settled France; Mneseus settled Burgundy; Autochthon settled Germany; Elasippus settled Italy, Sardinia, and Malta; Mestor remained at home in North-West Africa [Mauretania] with his tribe; Diaprepes settled Scandinavia; and Azaes settled America. Plato wrote: “all these [that is, Atlas and his brothers] and their descendants were the inhabitants and rulers of divers islands in the open sea”. Atlas and his brothers, and their sisters, whom the brothers took as their wives, according to one myth, were the sons and daughters of the Greek sea-god Poseidon [the equivalent to the Roman sea-god Neptune] begotten of the mortal-woman Cleito (Kleito), the daughter of Evenor, an early classical king, and his wife, Leucippe, formerly a vestal-virgin; while, according to another myth, these brothers and sisters of Atlas appear as his sons and daughters while Atlas is himself called the son of the Greek patriarch Iapetos. Iapetos, according to mythology, was the son of Deucalion, the Greek Noah; while, according to legendary history, Iapetos is to be identified with Japheth, one of Noah’s three sons, the Bible figure. Japheth is usually regarded as the ancestor of the Indo-Europeans, and not of the Atlanteans who are sometimes identified with the “giants” spoken of in the Bible in Genesis 6:4, who, upon comparison with the Bible verses Job 1:6;2:1 and 2 Peter 2:4,5, we learn were the off-spring of humans and extra-terrestrials. It is believed by some theologians that God created astral-beings as well as terrestrial-beings, and that the astral-beings had intercourse with mortal-women who gave birth to giants, demi-gods, and heroes, whose story is that of Greek Mythology. These giants, who were of mixed human and angelic and/or demonic birth, were in the earth in the years before Noah’s Flood (Gen. 6:4), by which they were judged by God (2 Pet. 2:5) and those who survived had descendants who were later encountered by the Hebrews during their migrations (Num. 13:33). The island-abode of Utnapishtim, the Sumerian Noah, visited by Gilgamesh, King of Erech [a Sumerian city-state], circa 2750BC, may have been Atlantis? If Utnapishtim was Noah still alive then our modern concept of ancient chronology is very uncertain. Atlas, who may have been Noah’s grandson according to one myth, may have supported his grandfather in his old age. Atlas appears in Greek Mythology to have been one of the rebellious giants, or “Titans”, who having fought and been vanquished by the Greek gods of Mount Olympus was punished by having to forever carry the world-globe on his shoulders. Atlas, who gave his name not only to the island-continent of Atlantis but also to the Atlantic Ocean, according to Plato, was the first King of Atlantis and the ancestor of its royal house. Atlas had at least five wives, many children, and numerous descendants, of whom the senior-line always retained the kingdom, “which the eldest son handed on to his eldest son for many generations over the centuries in uninterrupted succession”, wrote Plato.

 The mysterious island called Hy-Brazil [var.: Brasil; Bressal; Bresil] which is mentioned in British Mythology was doubtless Atlantis; for its king was called the “King of The World”. Hy-Brazil appears under many different names on medieval maps, and was the subject of “L’Isola Brazil” (Genoa, 1325), by Angelinus Dalorto, the renown cartographer. His thesis influenced the Portugese to give America the name “Brazil”, although maps after Columbus’ time still showed an island of that name in the North Atlantic. The northern most tip of Atlantis was said to have lied at the same latitude as Ireland but far out to sea. The capital city of Atlantis, called “Brasileia” by Piteas, where the “King of The World” was said to reside, was said by Plato to have been marvelous beyond description, attesting to the high level of civilization the Atlanteans had achieved in ancient times; and had developed a distinctive culture, which was the mother-culture of Egypt, Britain, and Mexico. The capital city of Atlantis was remarkable, says Plato, for the large scale and decorative splendor of its public buildings, its temple, and the imperial palace, which were all built of white, black, and red sandstone, or marble. The city’s port, or harbor, says Plato, was constantly busy and “full of vessels and merchants from all parts” that made Atlantis very wealthy and prosperous. [This author also fails to recognise that the original city was distinct from its later colonial replications such as Tartessos. The text is describing one of thiose replications here, probably Tartessos itself-DD]The “New Stone Age” saw the rise of [the surviving "Ten KIngdoms" of] Atlantis to a great power. Atlantis began expanding during the New Stone Age all along the coasts of the Atlantic establishing out-posts and colonies, and by the Bronze Age had become the centre of a trans-Atlantis maritime empire with colonies in Western Europe, North-West Africa, the British Isles, Scandinavia, as well as North America. Atlantis, about the beginning of the Early Bronze Age, expanding into western Mediterranean waters, according to Plato, subdued “the parts of Libya [North Africa] as far as Egypt, and the parts of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia [Italy]”, and established an out-post on the Isle of Malta. It was around the time of the beginnings of Egyptian History when Menes, reckoned as Egypt’s first king, the King of Upper Egypt [Pathros], conquered Lower Egypt [Kaphtor], unified the country, and founded Egypt’s first national dynasty, circa 3000BC. His conquest of Lower Egypt caused the migration of the Mizraimite Caphorites from the Egyptian delta to the isle of Crete. They were the pre-Minoan people of Crete. Meanwhile, the Canaanites of Palestine were establishing colonies and found Sidon, Avaris, and Troy. The settlers of Sidon became the Phoenicians who found Tyre, Beruit, Arka, and other cities. The settlers of Avaris [Tanis] became the Belgae of Egypt, who gave Egypt its Second-Dynasty, and later upon their expulsion by Egypt’s Third-Dynasty migrated to Greece and found Athens. The Belgae in Greece were the Pelasgic Greeks [pre-Greeks]. The Canaanite settlers of Troy were the first of nine different peoples who occupied the city in ancient-times. Explorers from Atlantis were sent out to neighboring islands and coasts during the New Stone Age, some of whom came to the British Isles and engaged in active barter with the natives, who were also Colossi by race yet were not as technically advanced as their cousins. The Atlanteans were soon mining tin in Britain and copper in Ireland to make bronze in their smelteries on their home-island of Atlantis, which the Atlanteans then exported to the British Isles, which began the Bronze Age in Britain. It was either trade, that is, the exchange of British tin and copper for Atlantean bronze, that began the Bronze Age in Britain; or else it was the local manufacture of bronze in Britain by the Britons themselves from their own deposits of tin and copper that began the Bronze Age in Britain. Colonists from Atlantis then followed and settled in the British Isles during the New Stone Age, establishing work-camps to mine tin and copper, introducing the megalithic culture, the culture of Atlantis, as well as the religion of Atlantis, which was Sumerian zeroashtaism, which religion had become worldwide in ancient times.[This attempts to make a distinct precoursor to Zoroastrism, but it fails to demonstrate the actual existance of such a thing.This is not a documented Sumerian cult known to Archaeology -DD]

 Ignatius Donnelly says that the mythologies of Egypt, Britain, and Mexico, represented the original religion of Atlantis, which he says was the worship of a god personified by the sun. This was the second wave of Atlanteans to come to Britain. This was not a migration like the first wave, but rather immigration that came about due to trade and industry which turned into commerce which attracted the Atlanteans to the British Isles. And, it followed that Britain became a colony or satellite-state of the great Atlantean empire. The Atlanteans, called the Colossi by the Greeks because they were said to have been giants, appear in British Mythology as the “aborigines” of the British Isles. The “giants” of British Mythology are the people called the “Picts” of British History, which is a name given to them by the later Romans that is an abbreviation of the Latin “populii pictii” meaning “painted-people” for their custom of wearing war-paint in battle. This same custom practiced also by Amerian Indians must have had a common origin. The Picts are generally regarded by historians as the earliest inhabitants of the whole British Isles. The Picts, that is, the Colossi, appear in Irish Mythology as the Fomorians. The Fomorians [Fomoire; Fomhoire; Fomorii] derived their name from the Irish word “fomhoire” meaning “giant”, as portrayed in Irish myths. The Fomorians [“giants”] were the Irish settlement of the Colossi, or Atlanteans. The Fomorians, described in Irish Mythology as giants, were the pre-Irish inhabitants of Ireland and are found occupying the isle when the ancestors of the historic Irish people arrive. The Fomorians of Irish Mythology are known in Irish History as the Cruithni, which is the Irish name for the Picts. The construction of megaliths was well under way in the British Isles by this time, and the religion of Atlantis early integrates with native or local cults in the British Isles during the New Stone Age and emerges by the Bronze Age as “druidism“, the religion of Britain, Ireland, and France, in ancient times. This squares with Caesar’s writings, who wrote that druidism evolved in Britain and was brought from there to Gaul, which statement is supported by archaeologists. Hence, druidism could not have been a Celtic religion, because the Celts came from Gaul to Britain. There was beyond Atlantis, wrote Plato, an archipelago of islands [the British Isles] that by way of the Atlanteans traveled to other islands and passed to an opposite continent, North America. It was the same route along the northern arc that the later Vikings took when they found their colonies in Iceland, Greenland, and Canada [Vinland]. Plato was referring to one of three waves of the Colossi to settle in America. The first wave of the Colossi came to America as settlers during the Middle Stone Age under the leadership of Azaes, one of the sons or brothers of Atlas, who with his tribe appear to have settled along the Great Lakes in Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin, and along the Ohio and upper Mississippi rivers, which region was anciently called “Aztalan” [“Aztlan”], after Azaes, reckoned as America’s first king and the ancestor of its first royal house. There is another myth that says it was not Azaes, but his son Coxcox who after wandering for many years finally established a settlement in North America, called “Aztalan” after his father, and was America’s first king. These were the so-called “Mound-Builders” who built the large earthen-mounds found in that region. The contents found in the mortuary-mounds of the Mississippi Valley are exactly like those found in British earthen-mounds and those of Western Europe, such as the stone chests containing wooden coffins and the articles buried with the dead, which points to a common origin for the ancient inhabitants of America and those of Britain and Western Europe in the Colossi race of Atlantis. These earthen-mounds were the parent-form, ancestor, or proto-type of the pyramids. The sunken ruins of the pyramid-complex of Aztalan has been discovered in Rock Lake about 40 miles west of Milwaukee. The question of the presence of pyramids in Atlantis arises here, for as the mother-country to Egypt, Britain, and Mexico, there is little doubt that the pyramid developed from the earlier earthen-mounds of the Atlanteans, who, as the builders of these, are sometimes called “Mound-People”. The step-pyramid at Saqqara in Egypt, the parent-form of Egypt’s pyramids, is built exactly like the mortuary-mound of Silsbury Hill in Britain, whose design is exactly like the earthen-mounds of Mexico. The “Mound-Builders” were the ancestors of the Aztecs, the Chichimec tribes, who, advancing down the Mississippi and spreading-out over its tributaries, eventually migrated to Mexico and were the successors of the great nations of Central America, who originally were Colossi by race but have since been absorbed by a mongoloid people, the “Amerinds” [early cousins of the later Eskimo-Aleutians], who, called “Red Indians” by later Europeans, migrated to America from Asia across the Bering Straits. The Colossi in America were the scattered tribes of so-called “White Indians” from Ohio to Peru. There are various Indian legends of “giants” as the aborigines of America. Indeed, the mounds and their artifacts are far more ancient than the earliest remnants of native Indian culture.[These would be the Adenas when the Colossi were actual Giants, and the regular Lenapid-Algonquins otherwise. Barry Fell identifies the subsequent Hopewellian MoundBuilders as subsequent migrations of Iberian-Tartessians]

 The second wave of the Colossi came as traders, colonists, and troops from Atlantis, as part of Atlantean expansion during the empire era of Atlantean History in the New Stone Age [?to the] Early Bronze Age. It was during this period that the Atlanteans built outposts in America, among which were: (a) the Isle Royale in Lake Superior off Michigan; (b) Mystery Hill, North Salem, New Hampshire; and (c) the isle of Bimini which lies among the Bahamas off Florida. The third wave of the Colossi came as refugees from Atlantis at the time of its destruction in the Late Bronze Age and settled along the shores of the Gulf of Mexico, spreading thence, in time to the plains and mountains of New Mexico and Colorado and to the tablelands of Central America where they appear as the Olmecs, Xicalancans, and Mayans, who were the first of the great nations of Central America. Atlantis, expanding into eastern Mediterranean waters, overran Greece, the Near East, and Egypt about 2700BC, but by 2600BC the Atlanteans had been driven out of the eastern Mediterranean region by the Mesopotamians [Sumerians], under the Akkadian emperor Narim-Sin, and by 2100BC had been driven out of the western Mediterranean region by the Indo-Europeans, or, more precisely, the Minoans[Mykenians, ancestors of the Greeks], though some colonies of Atlanteans held out for a while in the Near East and were the “giants” encountered by the Hebrews, that is, the Anakim, Zamzumim, and Emim. Goliath, the giant whom David slew, was undoubtedly descended from a scattered remnant of a colony of Atlanteans in Canaan who had mixed with the native Canaanites and other newcomers to the region. It appears that after the Atlanteans had been driven out of the Near East they settled in the Caucasus, the Crimea, and in Bulgaria, however, were later driven from those areas and migrated on to Syria, Northern Iran, the Malabar Coast, the Nilgiri Hills of India, to South-East Asia, and eventually to the South Sea Islands, where they disappear from history around the time of the migrations of the Polynesians who settled in the islands of the Pacific Ocean. Following their wars with the Mediterraneans, the Atlanteans of Atlantis withdrew into the Atlantic Ocean where they reigned supreme and appear to have been isolationists not having any dealings with the Mediterraneans for the next five centuries except for the piracy of Mediterranean ships, which happened to venture beyond the Straits of Gibraltar into the Atlantic, whose crews were taken captive and made into slaves to work the mines and smelteries of Atlantis and its colonies. Atlantis lost its hegemony over Western Europe during the Middle Bronze Age due to the encroaches of the “Beaker-People”, who came to Western Europe as refugees as a result of the migrations of peoples caused by the advances of the Indo-Europeans.[The chronology of this seems to be off. The Beaker Folk appear to hold some relationship to the Adenas: they, too, are Atlanteans of large stature.Megalithic Europe would have been THE stronghold of the Atlantean Ten Kingdoms at this time-DD]

[Now for the part which shall call for some extra explanation] It was reported by the Greek classic Plato that Atlantis was destroyed in a terrible convulsion of nature and to have disappeared with nearly all of its inhabitants beneath the sea except its mountain-tops, now the Azore Isles, while it was again warring with the Mediterraneans “900 (not 9000) before Solon’s time”, that is, circa 1500BC. The 9000 years date which Plato gives is an error according to many scholars who agree that an extra “0” has made its way into the text and that 900 years is more likely, for upon this basis the history of Atlantis could fit well into the framework of known historical events. Indeed, the history of Atlantis fits perfectly in the outline of Ancient Chronology using the “900” years date. Plato wrote that Atlantis, for the second time, “came forth from the outer ocean in a war between all those who dwelt outside the Pillars of Hercules and all those who dwelt within them.“ He says: “this vast empire gathered all its forces together and undertook to conquer all the lands that border the Mediterranean Sea.” It is implied that Britain was an ally of Atlantis and contributed forces to the expedition. And, Plato wrote that “the host of invaders marched in wanton insolence upon all Europe and Asia together, issuing yonder from the Atlantic Ocean.” The Atlanteans destroyed the Minoan Empire of Crete, attacked Mycenean Greece, and also 18th-Dynasty Egypt. Athens withheld siege in Greece and repulsed the invaders, however, the Greek Navy, while in pursuit, was destroyed in a storm.
[ As a matter of fact, the assumption that Plato's figures can be successfully divided by 10 is a sore point because to do so destroys the integrity of the maths used internally in the Platonic texts. The Platonic dialogues are actually MEANT to have those figures at precisely those dimenmsions because otherwise the entire structure becomes meaningless. In this case this author is speaking of the events of the "Peoples of the Sea" Following Phaethon, some few centuries later than 1500 BC. The "Peoples of the Sea" were not only of Atlantean descent, there is good reason to suspect they flaunted that identity. Plato's account also says the Greek ARMY was destroyed ON LAND at the same time, a different story that this author gives.
With that understanding, the rest of this is probably near enough true.]

There were some Atlanteans who escaped the destruction of their homeland and made their way to their overseas colonies or either found new colonies: some traveling east, others north, and some west. Those east settled in the Pyrenees Mountains between France and Spain and became the Basque. Those north settled in the northern parts of the British Isles, the Nordreys, and in the area around the Trondheimfjord in Western Norway, and became the Atecotti [Attacotti]. This was the third and last wave of Atlanteans to settle in the British Isles. And those west settled in Central America and became the Olmecs, the ancestors of the Mayans. Of these, the Basque, the Atecotti, and the Olmecs, only the Basque have survived as a nationality into modern times even though they have mixed over thousands of years with successive waves of invaders and colonists. Note that the Basque Language has nothing in common with any modern European language but has some common traits with some languages of the native American Indians. The Atecotti of Britain were said by the Romans to have spoken a language that was unlike the Celtic tongue but was akin to the Basque language. The Atlantean kingdom in Britain was founded by a group of Atlantean refugees from Atlantis who came following the destruction of their home-island and settled in their colonies in the British Isles, in parts of Ulster, Northern Scotland, and the Nordreys [Orkneys, Shetlands, and Faroes], and became the Atecotti [Attacotti], so-called by later Romans. This group of Atlantean refugees migrated under the leadership of the Atlantean prince Creon, who was the first tribal chief/king of the Atecotti and the ancestor of their royal clan, the Creones, that is, Britain’s Third-Dynasty. Creon (Kreon) was a cousin of the last King of Atlantis and therefore a male-line descendant of Atlas, the first King of Atlantis and the founder of its dynasty. The Atecotti appear to have settled at first in the Nordreys, that is, the Northern Isles, namely, the Orkneys, the Shetlands, and the Faroes, from where they spread-out to Scotland, the Isle of Man, and to Norway. The Atecotti in Scotland became a major tribe rivaling the later Caledonians and Albanese. Their settlement in Norway was centered around the Trondheimsfjord in Western Norway, which was probably the legendary kingdom of “Thule” mentioned by classical writers. The classic Pytheas wrote (300BC) that Thule was six days sail from Britain. He was probably referring to the old Norwegian kingdom of Hlade, in the Trondelag, the area around the Trondheimsfjord in Western Norway, whose kings were the ancestors of the medieval Trondheim jarls/earls. There is a difference of opinion as to where Thule was: some say the Orkneys; some believe it to have been Iceland; and some say Scandinavia. The Atecotti, whom the Romans said were cannibals, built the “brochs”, wheel-houses, and “cairns“, which are found mainly in the far north of Scotland and the Nordreys. The “brochs” were high, round towers, built for defensive purposes; the wheel-houses were round stone huts with radial piers; and the “cairns” were elaborate interconnected groups of stone-built houses. The Atecotti later joined the Caledonians and Albanese in a series of wars with the Romans, who collectively called them “the Picts“. The cataclysm that destroyed Atlantis may be remembered in British myths of the disappearance of such legendary cities as “Mevonia”, now submerged somewhere in the middle of Irish Sea [note: the islands of the Irish Sea, e.g., Isle of Man, etc., were one time called the "Mevanian Islands".]; or “Lyonesse”, now submerged off Land’s End, Cornwall, England; and “Ker-Is“, now submerged in the English Channel off Brittany, France, which was part of a chain of islands that are all now gone except for the Channel Islands. The island-city of “Hy-Brazil“, which legend says is now submerged somewhere in the North Atlantic “far out to sea” off Ireland, is thought to actually be a reference to Atlantis, whose northern fringe may very well have reached as far north as the British Isles. The “lost cantref of Wales” [“Cantref-y-Gwaelod“], the “Lowlying Land”, which marked the ancient western coast-line of Wales, now submerged under Cardigan Bay, was flooded possibly at the sametime of the break-up of the island-city of Mevonia into the Irish Sea; which may have occurred possibly at the sametime of the disappearance of “the Green Islands”, now submerged off Milford Haven, Wales, in the Irish Sea. The “Triads” report “three awful events”, which were (1) an earthquake/volcano eruption [described as “a trembling of the fiery torrent, until the earth was rent to the abyss”], (2) an unusually hot summer [during which “the trees and plants took fire by the burning heat of the sun], and (3) a deluge [in which “the greatest part of the population of the isle was swept away by water”]. It has been suggested that this was the time of the formation of Iceland from a series of active volcanoes that rose high in the waters of the North Atlantic, which would accompany major physical upheavals in nature in the northern hemisphere. The destruction of Atlantis in a cataclysmic upheaval in nature may have put so much ash into the atmosphere that temperatures dropped causing what we call today a “nuclear winter”, resulting in a “mini-ice age”, which caused the population of Britain to drastically decline in numbers, which essentially opened up the country to conquest by the Battle-Axe People. There is a legend that the last King of Atlantis, sometimes called Cronos [II], or Crosus, or Crocus, was survived by an only child, a daughter, Antyllia [Electra], who escaped the destruction of Atlantis in the company of a group of ex-slaves of various Mediterranean nationalities, one of whom, a Greek prince, Corythus [Demetrius], she later was to marry and by him give birth to the epic hero Dardan, the ancestor of Brutus, who later found the British Iron Age Royal House. [Please note that this treats the plot of George Pal's movie Atlantis the Lost Continent as historically valid. The movie was based on an earlier play, but I see no reason to hold that the story represents any kind of legend or tradition-DD]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [REF: "Atlantis: The Antediluvian World", by Ignatius Donnelly, 1882; "Plato, the Atlantis story: Timaeus 17-27, Critias", by Christopher Gill, 1980; "Atlantis, the eighth continent", by Charles Berlitz, 1984; "Lost Atlantis: new light on an old legend", by John V. Luce, 1969; "The Megalith Builders", by Wallace E. Mackie, 1977; "Atlantean Traditions in Ancient Britain", by Anthony Roberts, 1977; "Atlantis of the west: the case for Britain's drowned megalithic civilization", by Paul Dunbavin, 2003; "Atlantis in Ireland", by Henry O'Brien, 1976; "Lost Cities of Atlantis, Ancient Europe & the Mediterranean", by David H. Childress, 1996; "Atlantis in America", by Lewis Spence, 1925; "Maya/Atlantis: Queen Moo and the Egyptian Sphinx", by Augustus Le Plongeon, 1896; "Atlantis and Egypt: with other selected essays", by John G. Griffiths, 1991; "From Atlantis to the Sphinx", by Colin Wilson, 1996; "Atlantis and The Giants", by Denis Saurat, 1957; "Giants: The Vanished Race of Mighty Men", by Roy Norvill, 1979; "Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum: or, the Giants in England", by Harold J. Massingham, 1926]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------David Hughes, 2001,