Monday, August 22, 2011
Fomorian Giants, Adenas and the Giants of the Bible, Part 2
A reader entered a comment on the older blog entry "Fomorian Giants, Adenas and the Giants of the Bible" overnight:
man with desire said...
Bible research who were the giants of the Bible; http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Biblegiants.html
And I had intended to add the following reply, but it did not go through owing to technical errors at Blogger. Never mind, we have been that route before and I know the alternative route. Here is my reply posted as a new blog entry:
That site includes the following scriptual data:
"Appearances of the giants in the Bible
I bring forth more Bible passages that speak about the giants..
Ishbibenob the descendant of the giant
2 Sam 21:
15 And the Philistines had war again with Israel; and David went down, and his servants with him, and fought against the Philistines; and David waxed faint.
16 And Ishbibenob, who was of the sons of the giant (rapha), the weight of whose spear was three hundred shekels of brass in weight, he being girded with new armour, thought to have slain David.
17 But Abishai the son of Zeruiah succoured him, and smote the Philistine, and killed him. Then the men of David swore unto him, saying: 'Thou shalt go no more out with us to battle, that thou quench not the lamp of Israel.' (JPS 1917)
Jewish Bible (JPS 1917) translated from Hebrew into English use verse 16 the word rapha, which means the giant such as Jewish Rabbis have translated it. Philistine Ishbibenob was the descendant of the giant.
Saph the descendant of the giant
2 Sam 21:18 And it came to pass after this, that there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; then Sibbecai the Hushathite slew Saph, who was of the sons of the giant (rapha). (JPS 1917)
Philistine Saph was the descendant of the giant.
Champion the descendant of the giant
2 Sam 21:20 And there was again war at Gath, where was a champion, that had on every hand six fingers, and on every foot six toes, four and twenty in number; and he also was born to the giant (rapha). (JPS 1917).
Gath was one of the five most important cities of the Philistines, and it was also the native city of Goliath. The champion from Gath of Philistia was the descendant of the giants.
War againts the Philistines
2 Sam 21:19 And there was again war with the Philistines at Gob; and Elhanan the son of Jaare-oregim the Beth-lehemite slew Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam. (JPS 1917)
In this passage is copying error, because David killed Goliath. Some has assumed that the verse should be: Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite. Goliath was also the descendant of the giant.
Giants of Gath
2 Sam 21:22 These four were born to the giant (rapha) in Gath; and they fell by the hand of David, and by the hand of his servants. (JPS 1917)
In Gath of Philistia lived the descendants of the giants. Israelites with help of God were fearless, and they could win the giants in the battle. This tells also exemplary that sin is like the giant, that a man can't win without help of God. With the help of God the gianst will fall and nation of God receive freedom and promises of God.
Goliath said to Israelites: Am not I a Philistine, and you servants to Saul? choose you a man for you, and let him come down to me. If he be able to fight with me, and to kill me, then will we be your servants: but if I prevail against him, and kill him, then shall you be our servants, and serve us.
The giant of sin wants to make a man for a slave of sin, who serve the filth of sin. This was Goliath's challenge; If you win me, you are free, but if I win you, you must serve me. The giant of sin desire is defeats you, and it will make that, if you trust your own power. Do not trust your own power. David didn't trust himself, but he trusted on God with His help and power. The consequence was that the giant of sin fell down and died.
With the help of God, you can defeat the giants of sin, and you are free to serve God and receive His promises. Miraculous is the grace and power of God and from it evidence is that Israelites have courage to fight against the giants, and they won them with the help of God.
The giant nations
10 The Emim dwelt therein aforetime, a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakim;
11 these also are accounted Rephaim (rephaim), as the Anakim; but the Moabites call them Emim.
19 and when thou comest nigh over against the children of Ammon, harass them not, nor contend with them; for I will not give thee of the land of the children of Ammon for a possession; because I have given it unto the children of Lot for a possession. -
20 That also is accounted a land of Rephaim (rephaim): Rephaim (rephaim) dwelt therein aforetime; but the Ammonites call them Zamzummim,
21 a people great, and many, and tall, as the Anakim; but the LORD destroyed them before them; and they succeeded them, and dwelt in their stead; (JPS 1917)
The Hebrew word rephaim is plural from the word rapha. The Bible tells for many giant nations; Emim, Anakim and Rephaim. The nation of Israel was ahead of the huge challenges, when they must conquer the promised land. King of Bashan
Deut 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of the Rephaim (rephaim); behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbah of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man. - (JPS 1917)
According to the Bible, the king of Bashan was the remnant of the giants (the son of Anak). King Og's bed of iron was nine cubits in length, and four cubits in width (about 4.5 meters in length and 2.5 meters in width (about 14.8 feet x 8.2 feet)) (Deut. 3)."
[The mere fact that King Og was legendarily associated with a large bed proves nothing. We still have "King-sized beds" and the luxury of an outsized bed is a status symbol.]
In the original blogradio interview "Giant Talk" I mentioned some of these passages and in particular the Rephaim. The Rephaim are interesting because they came from Over the sea and on the other side of the world by interpretation. And when they are in Israel they are there as part of a Mercenary contingent for the Peoples of the Sea, for that is what the Philistines (Pelishtim) were. The Peoples of the Sea had transoceanic settlements in America, and when they fell back to the Mediterranean, they had some of the Adena Giants in with them: Barry Fell speaks of their particular skull type and conical burial mounds as coming out of a mixture of peoples and appearing on both sides of the Atlantic at the same time.
Here are some definitions from the Mid-East Giants website, derived from standard concordances and other well-known historical documents:
Ras Shamra Texts
Written records recovered from a mound that marks the site of the ancient city of Ugarit, located on the Syrian coast opposite Cyprus, provide a separate verification of the biblical giants.
Found in 1928, these Ras Shamra Texts frequently mention the Rephaim, whose communities apparently ranged that far north. Linguists who deciphered the cuneiform texts say they were written about Joshua's time. Ras Shamra is the modern name given to an ancient mound located on the Syrian coast opposite Cyprus. (See Execration Texts; Israel's Wars with the Giant)
According to H. R. Hall, the Rephaim built the megalithic monuments, the dolmens, and the menhirs of Moab and eastern Palestine. Fields of dolmens still may be seen in many parts of northern Jordan. The most notable ones are found in the foothills of the Jordan valley to the east of Damiah bridge, in the foothills east of Talailat Ghassul, around Irbid, and in the hill country near Hasban. (See Argob's Sixty Cities of the Giants; Beit Jibrim)
[interesting that the Giants are directly identified as belonging to the Megalith-Builders, from Western Europe: the Giants as belonging to this culture also remained a feature of the Folklore of those regions in later years, especially in France, Spain and the Mediterranean Islands-and of course, Britain-DD]
Rephaim, Land of the
In the widest sense, the "land of the Rephaim" once comprised all Transjordan and Canaan, because the giants occupied those regions in great numbers. At the time of Israel's invasion, they remained a people to be reckoned with, but their population had dwindled to the extent that the Anakim--their cousin--now dominated the land. Yet, in one place, they retained sufficient numbers and power to be still called the "land of the Rephaim." That territory lay in central Canaan, just north of the Perizzites. Scholars say their large settlement extended from there to perhaps as far as the Valley of Jezreel. (See Abraham and the Giants; Argob's Sixty Cities of the Giants; Beit Jibrim; Israel's Wars with the Giants; Giants, Valley of the)
Rephaim, Valley of the
This abode of the giants was located southwest of Jerusalem, beginning at the valley of Hinnom and stretching three miles along the road to Bethlehem. The valley got its name from some early giant inhabitants called the Rephaim. (See Israel's Wars with the Giants)
And this is from the Wikipedia entry:
Rephaim (Heb. plural רפאים, rendered in contemporary English as Rephaite) is a Northwest Semitic that occurs in the Hebrew Bible as well as other, non-Jewish ancient texts from the region. It can refer to the dead ancestors, who are residents of the Netherworld, or to a mythical race of giants.
Race of giants
In the Hebrew Bible, "Rephaim" can describe an ancient "race" of giants in Iron Age Israel, or the places where these individuals were thought to have lived: see Gen. 14:5, 15:20; Deut. 2:10-1,20, 3:11,13; Josh. 12:4, 13:12, 15:8, 17:15, 18:16; 2Sam. 5:11,22, 23:13; 1Chr. 11:15, 14:9, 20:4. In the biblical narrative, the Israelites are instructed to exterminate the previous inhabitants of the "promised land," i.e. "Canaan," which include various named peoples, including some unusually tall/large individuals. See the passages listed above in the book of Joshua, and also Deut. 3:11, which implies that Og, the King of Bashan, was one of the last survivors of the Rephaim, and that his bed was 9 cubits long in ordinary cubit. (An ordinary cubit is the length of a man's forearm according to the New American Standard Bible, or approx. 18 inches, which differs from a royal cubit. This makes the bed over 13 feet long.). Anak was a Rephaite (Deuteronomy 2:11).
The area of Moab at Ar, (the region East of the Jordan) before the time of Moses, was also considered the land of the Rephaites. Deuteronomy 2:18-21 refers to the fact that Ammonites called them "Zamzummim", which is related to the Hebrew word זמזם, which literally translates into "Buzzers", or "the people whose speech sounds like buzzing." In Arabic the word زمزم (zamzama) translates as "to rumble, roll (thunder); murmur".
Barry Fell also makes a case that the Hopewellian Mound-Builders were Iberians and thus descendants of the Tartessians, also Peoples of the Sea. Both Adenas and Hopewells had Tartessian connections. And Austin Whittal of the Patagonian Monsters site had noticed independantly of me that several of the South American reports of Giant remains mentioned the oddly vertical braincase and flat back to the heads of these Giants, which I had remarked in the "Giant Talk" interview was also the characteristic head form of the Adenas.
I might also add that it is a common error to equate the Rephaim and the Nephilim simply because both are described as big. That is an error. The Nephilim that were supposed to be the offspring of the Fallen Angels were also supposed to have been killed in the Deluge of Noah, and in fact they are commonly given as the reason for sending the deluge. If some of them survived, God's plan in sending the Deluge was for nothing. But there is no reason to equate the Nephilim and the Rephaim. The latter included all reports of the deformed Giants (Gigantes in Greek) of the Bible. There is nothing to suggest the Nephilm were not handsome and perfectly formed, but simply larger than usual and given to bullying behaviour. That is also what the Bible says.
I never did understand why several commentators insisted there was only one kind of Giant mentioned in the Bible when clearly at least two distinct types were described, and the first type was supposed to have been killed off by the Flood.
Best Wishes, Dale D.